African Elephant

02-09-2007

jarkari, i cannot see the sens in your suggestion mate. you propose bringing her to australia, but not introducing her to the only african elephants in the australasian region at dubbo and instead place her n retirement....where? if anyone was willing to bng this animal, which is no going to happen anyway, over here to retire than surely the kindes thing to do would be to give her some company. any why pu t her with asian elephants. that would just jeapordise that whole program.
yes, it would be kind to see her end up at dubbo-where the 15 year or so age gap between Jumbo and the two others would hardly matter. at some point there will be one african elephant left in Australia-the humane thing would be for them to at least live together

03-09-2007

as you know jarkari has been talking of purchasing asian elephants from autrslian circus'. i believe his plan is to purchase her and place her with these non-breeding asians - thus it wouldn't compromise the program. however, i agree that it is just a short-term solution. i can't see many of the asian circus elephants living much more than about 5 years (gigi and arna on the otherhand have a bit longer). on the other hand this elephant 'jumbo' should have maybe another 25 years left.

i know zoos have no obligation to "rescue" circus animals, nor should they have to pay exhorbitant amounts for them. but its a shame that the liklihood of this animal meeting any other african elephants anytime soon is so slim. really, the best option for her is to go to dubbo. who knows, maybe by the time her companions die, monarto will have some for themselves?

otherwise, we can hope that an overseas zoo might show interest in a (possible) breeding age african cow, but thats unlikely. no doubt its quite costly to move her and the US and Europe seem to have no shortage of african elephants....

03-09-2007

if it were an asian elephant perhaps EEP or US SSP coordinators would be intersted, but African elephants are stable in both regions which would effectively cancel out overseas zoo interest.the only solution i can see to rehouse Jumbo would be to bring her to Dubbo. but as Pat pointed out, the zoos have no obligation to consider this other than a humane or ethical consideration.
on another note, Stardust Circus is coming to my home town with two asian elephants shortly

03-09-2007

stardust - that's gigi and arna.

you should go check it out (and that doesn't mean you have to pay for the show). i would be interested to hear what a person with good animal ethics who actualy knows about animals has to say about the animal welfare there.

04-09-2007

Hey guys, I fully understand where you are coming from. Elephants have a very definitive family bond. that relationship is developed over years with whatever family that elephant has. Jumbo has been with ratcliffe so long humans are her family. I am not saying I think this is right but it is the truth. Now any introduction to othre elephants could, not necessarily but could take months and may not be a success. From what I have seen of Jumbo she craves the company of her keeper and other humans. however much i disagree with circuses I personally think it could be considered more cruel to remove her from her owner. Having said that I haven't seen how she is treated when the public are not around. As for bringing her here, other than $350,000 to hire a Russian Cargo Plane. It would be too much of a health risk now to place her with any Asians. For this poor girl it seems the rest of her life will be spent in a circus unless a New Zealander decides to retire her there. I can't see her being let out of the country any time soon unless Dubbo wants her.

04-09-2007

The RAAF moved some Oryx from Perth to Monarto a few years ago maybe they would fly jumbo to Dubbo??

06-09-2007

That would be for the best, but it's all academic at this stage until someone's prepared to put their hand in their pocket.

06-09-2007

If it was a case of "just" money she'd be comfortably settled in at home with the other two africans at dubbo by now. It's all the bull.... that comes with getting her anywhere, even within NZ. The government is only willing to help out when it suits them and in their eyes allowing one elephant to come over isn't as important as 8

07-09-2007

have you spoken to anyone at dubbo about this issue jarkari?

07-09-2007

did i miss some posts or is this just a dream thread....why is the australian gov obliged to help an african elephant living in new zealand in a circus? its not even an arazp problem. if youre suggesting that the only reason the zoos arent getting involved is because the acquisition of jumbo lacks a commercial outcome, as opposed to say what, the 8 asian elephants, than this is even more stupid than i thought. besides, if zoos were all about making money, than surely jumbo would be on the first (why fly, a ship will do) ship over so dubbo could continue banking on its only african elephants in australasia reputation....
i just dont think operation jumbo drop isnt a priority. sorry. i hate suffering, if she actually is, but id rather ARAZPA institutions help the suffering bears of china first, or coordinate a valid breeding program, then rescue circus animals who arent even technically homeless.
however, if i was a millionaire i probably would buy her. jst to please yo jarkari

09-09-2007

what would be the chances of western plains, werribee or monarto bringing in a group of african elephant from say southern africa as san diego and lowry park did a few years back

09-09-2007

this has been proposded, and monarto are loking at a situatriojnlike this very long term.

but as you would be aware the australaiasian region has invested much effort and funds into the asiastic breeding program, so therefore making asians, our pririty elephant species in the region.

in the very long term, there could be a chance of new adfricans, but not until we have a very successful breeding group of asians in the region

10-09-2007

i'm all for no africans in the region, long-term. just in case i haven't made it painfully obvious a billion times before!!!

11-09-2007

I am planning on talking to Dubbo in the coming months to see if they would be interested in housing her... I have a few other priorities I have to sort out first before I can start talking to them about Jumbo though. But if they wanted her I'm sure it could be arranged at minimal cost to them.

11-09-2007

When I said if it was only about money she would be over here I didn't mean that to be taken as I think you did. I don't mean that the zoos are in it for a commercial reason I meant that if the legal requirements of housing with other elephants and all that import stuff didn't come into I know a private person would have bought her and brought her over here by now. but these laws are necessary and therefore makes it very difficult for that to happen. I know the zoos have no obligation to help animals. And I agree that zoos should focus on things like chinese bears my comment was aimed at the difficulty in private hands obtaining animals. But I also acknowledge that there are reasons behind the laws.

I doubt there will be African in Australia ever again, or atleast for a very very long time. There are minimal breeding centres for africans, most of the captiv elephants are orphans or wild caught. Legally with elephants in Africa they must not come from certain areas and must be captive bred. Very difficult to get around the laws. and american zoos have a lot more money to... "support" ...african politicians...