Auckland Zoos New Elephant Exhibit » Auckland Zoo

26-11-2006

I had read on the net that a zoo in Israil had used chilled semen from a bull elephant kept at the Whipsnade zoo (London zoo counrty zoo) in England and later had a calf, so this does have some merrit for zoos without males.

a premature decision and a wasted opportunity...
26-11-2006

thanks for that important info zoopro.

but i have to admit, the fact that heman is fully fertile, and that there are transportation issues arising, just strengthens my long-standing argument that taronga made a dumb premature decision in moving heman and burma to dubbo. hes an old guy, but there is definately an opportunity here for him to make a very valuable contribution before he departs the scene and i'm afraid that opportunity might not be taken up.

burma would have most definately have appreciated (and i would argue deserved) the pleasure of living out her last years with a more naturalistic environment of female company.

heman on the other hand would have provided the zoo instant breeding opportunities with the two older thai cows who are at present ready to breed but are awaiting for an immmature bull to come of age..

kinda a bit of a waste dont ya think?

26-11-2006

well dah its taronga lol, anyway i would never mo ve them back, you wouldnt no them 2 now, they are so happy guys, at least 1 good decision has been made

27-11-2006

i think that the best decision was made at the time.
from a welfare point of view the two older elephants now at wpz are much better off-as suitable as taronga's new facility is and the second development in the future i think one of the most important factors is that the elephants can be taken outside and exercised. this would not have been an option with heman or burma.
also, as heman is quite old, was it even suspected that he was still fertile? the best option here wold be to preserve some of his semen. and finally, why would taronga's planners modify a multi $ elephant enclosure to accomodate an animal who at best will be around for another ten years??? when ever heman was introduced to burma before, he used to beat her up and until taronga builds the new bull area there is no place for a 'mature' bull at taronga who cannot be socalised with the females.
i really think the best place for heman is at wpz, and would invite people who are against this to perhaps visit the zoo first...

27-11-2006

i don't for a second doubt that hemans enclosure at WPZ is good glyn, so thanks but i'll pass on your offer to visit first.

i don't think stating that the taronga enclosure being unsuitable is a very valid excuse. since taronga designed and built it to suit their priorities, any issues arising from lack of flexibilty with elephant hunsbandry and management (such as housing a mature bull and recognising certain animals may need separation) is entirely their own fault.

its not that i belive heman is not better off at dubbo than he was in the old taronga exhibit, i'm saying that the decision not to integrate the existing animals (and design the tarionga exhibit to make this an option) with the new thai animals has potentially missed a valuable opportunity.

their is no reason why a similar scenario such as that of melbournes couldn't have been applied here. especially since gung, at this stage, can live happily with the cows...

28-11-2006

what you said zuki-pah is true, but even if heman was known to be fertile at the time taronga designed its exhibit burma would probably still needed to be taken out west because she is so aggressive. and splitting heman and burma would probably have been another example of 'cruelty' for the anti-zoo brigade to latch on to.
additionally, if you consider that taronga was originally going to use AI as a breeding tool, why is having heman, a difficult to manage animal who cannot be exercised outisde of his enclosure, any more effective at taronga than at dubbo, where he can live out his days with plenty of room to exercise and still provide a sample of his semen???
zoos use assisted reproduction all the time. heman is best off out west and if the zoos decide to try and incorporate his genetic line into the program than AI could be an option.

28-11-2006

and patrick,you should go to western plains zoo. its a great zoo and i think its nice when we can visit places that we always talk about

29-11-2006

behavioural isues is a fair argument. though there is a compelling argument that it was unfair for taronga to have never even attempted to intgrate burma with the new herd (which the zoo for many years stated on their website was to be the case, whilst trying to drum up public support), i am looking at it purely from a breeding program point of view. all bull elephants are potentially highly unpredicatble and agressive and a good elephant exhibit should cater to this. melbourne certainly never exercises bong-su outside his enclosure like they do with the females, in fact he has no unprotected contact whatsover (and for the most part he is considered a preetty docile bull). hypothetically, if mek kappah never integrates into the new herd, melbournes exhibit is designed in sucha way that she could be managed seperately, never having direct contact with her companions. two barns and three rotation paddocks makes for a pretty flexable design.

so essentially, whilst i understand that heman and burma are happier at dubbo (indeed i'm sure their enclosure is much more spacious that that of the zoos city counterpart), i think its a testament to the awkward, contardictory and often changing decision making and planning at taronga, that they are now in a situation with a fertile bull in one of their zoos with an infetrile cow and the fertile cows in another zoo accompanied by an immature bull...

29-11-2006

From a founder point of view it is nessecary for Hema to breed. Three bull founders isn't sufficiant to create a viable sustainable herd. It would take only three generations for inbreeding to start. Hopefully ny that time new bulls and cows could be imported without all the fuss.

29-11-2006

and i'm sure they will be! but so long as heman is not from sri lanka (i'm not too keen on a hybridised program) i thnk taronga should put a big priority in breeding their currently reproductive cows with their current reproductive bull.

29-11-2006

Lets hope Australia zoo will import more elephants to join the national herd, the more animals and bloodlines the better, their new Elephantasia is now open and said to be the biggest in OZ.

29-11-2006

Well, it would be really silly to build such a huge elephant facility for just three old cows now, wouldn't it?

30-11-2006

you know, despite everything i've said here, sometimes i have to sit back and remind myself that elephants are long-lived creatures and that this is gonna be a very slow breeding program. we talk about the need to import more elephants, but ultimately the ones we have just imported are gonna (hopefully) stay with us for a very long time. in fact, they might just out-live me!

30-11-2006

good points by all i think. actually, to conclude, i think taronga has been pretty flexible when you consider it didnt even want a bull to begin with. as i said earlier, AI was going to be the way.
its lucky taronga has a bit more money then the other zoos so i could put its hand up and say yes to Gung. the fact that he can socialise with the girls and is still immature will give taronga the chance to recoup its funds and build a second enclosure for him in the next couple of years...and its obvious that Australia Zoo wouldnt spend that ammount of money on 3 old elephants

30-11-2006

well i think all elephants old, or young breeding or not, all deserve a nice home,. to swim and well jsut be elephants.

hay everyones agrees don't you! i know siam, bimbo, sabu, heman, burma, chere, yum yum, cuddles, gung, pak boon, tong dee, tang mo, pornthip, num oi, dokkoon, kulab, mek kapah , bong su, and Perth’s Trish and there other 3 elephants all do, and now only if we can help Arna and Gigi, we will have the perfect elephant world in australia