Asian trip for end of 2008

Asian trip for end of 2008
13-01-2008

Hi fellows!
I'm currently preparing my next asian trip scheduled to december 2008-January 2009.
I'll surely spend a little time in Singapore (Jurong, Zoo, Night Safari), Malaysia (Negara, Melaka, Taiping), Hong-KOng (Zoo, Ocean Park ...) and I'll probably include more destinations... and that's where I need your help!
There are a few places where I really want to go... problem is I know too few things on them to have answers to the following questions :

1/ is it good to come here ?? (will I see new species? is the zoo correct or really crap??)
2/ is the zoo accessible by public transport or taxi ?
3/ how much time do I need to be sure to have seen every rare specie ?

Now, here are my destinations list.

1/ Taiwan : I'd really like to see Taipei zoo as it seems to be really big and to have an enormous collection with some very nice rarities. I wonder how many days you need to visit the huge Taipei zoo and after, have the impression that you did not miss anything rare... I would also like to know if there are other parks in or near Taipei (or on Taiwan island) that would be worth visiting (like aquariums... other zoos...)

2/ Bali : I got infos saying that the Bali bird park is really worth a visit, many species including rare ones (Sumba hornbill, Javan hawk eagle, Paradise birds). Is that true?? Any other interesting parks on Bali island??

3/ Central Java : I already spent time visiting zoos in Surabaya and Jakarta... I know central javan towns like Solo (Surakarta) and Yogyakarta also have zoos... do you know something about these parks? Are they worth visiting?? What about Taman Safari in Bogor?? Are there typical indonesian species (rare ones) or only common animals??

4/ Thailand : I'll not be able to spend too much time there, so I chose to focus on two places : Bangkok and Khao Kheow open zoo. Is there anything interesting to see in Bangkok (regarding animals)?? Zoos?? aquariums??
Concerning Khao Kheow, is it doable during one day from Bangkok?? or do I need to find somewhere to sleep near that park?? Is it worth visiting?? nice species to see?? Can it be done without a car (as I surely will never rent a car and drive in those countries)

5/ Rainforest Habitat : this park located in Lae (Papua New Guinea) really interesses me because of the many bird of paradise species it holds (blue birds of paradise amongst them). Anybody has been there?? In case yes, what was the athmosphere of the park and the surroundings?? Do you know if there are accomodations (the safest possible of course) near or in the park?? Do they really have lots of new guinean endemics ?? Any other zoo or park to visit in PNG while I'll be there??

6/ Philippines : I'd like to see and take pics of some endemic species from Philippines... So I wonder how are the zoos there... I know there's at least one or two zoos around Manilla. Anybody has been there?? are those parks worth a visit?? And most important... where in this country (in zoos or parks or open centers) can I see Philippines monkey eagle and other endangered endemics like Philippines crocs, Aceros waldeni and more??


In advance, many thanks for reading me and guiding me!
I'm also open to any other suggestions in the area, knowing that my travel budget and time are not too much extendable... so I must manage with money, time and everything... A trip to Sebbe's zoo would be really nice too but how can that be arranged??

Cheers!

13-01-2008

Sounds great, we've been looking at Going to Singapore and Borneo too! Haven't come to a conclusion yet, but from your pictures of the zoo, and Patrick's explanation of his river ride, I'm really hoping that we go.

13-01-2008

Bangkok has the Dusit Zoo (called Khao Din by the locals, if you want to impress them by already knowing that!) and the Siam Ocean World aquarium in the Siam Paragon Centre. Both are very good, although if you've been to other big Asian aquariums then Bangkok's one is much the same (they all seem to be made from the same plans). Both are easy to get too with public transport (bus, train, or tuk-tuk). I have a couple of threads in this section on them and on Khao Kheow Open Zoo.

Khao Kheow can be done as a day-trip from Bangkok, but it is pretty much impossible to reach by public transport from the nearest town (Chonburi)except by hiring a songthaew for an exorbitant price (700 Baht was the amount my driver tried to extort out of me!). The park would be best done over the entire day, but again this is difficult without your own transport. There is a little train that runs round the exhibits but the stops are almost never near the places where you need to be on foot (eg, the cat cages, aviaries, etc). My impression of Khao Kheow was that although the publicity gives the idea of a huge open-range zoo, most of the enclosures are in fact standard-sized, just spread out in a larger area. Many of them are actually very small (especially for the cats).

There is also an aquarium in Chonburi at the University which is good. The Underwater World in Pattaya is not worth spending money on.

13-01-2008

Thanks a lot for the info... How many days do you think I must spend in Bangkok and Chonburri in order to enjoy my stay and see as much as possible?? (it's only zoo visiting, I won't take too much time except in the evening for touristy stuff)

13-01-2008

Hello Pedro,

Looks like you will have a full bocked schedule there, alot of interesting places you plan to visit, aim especially interested how your visit to Bali and New guinea works out, two little known collections.


Philippines: I have been in the Philippines pretty much in the past,for birding trips and have visited a fair number of rehab centres and similar institutions. I last visited the Philippines in 2003 (when I spend most of my time on Cebu) and things may have changed since I was last here.

A you probably already know there has been a breeding centre for Tamaraw on its native Island Mindoro in the past, but from what I have understand the captive population there was down to 2-3 several years ago and they may no longer keep any, worth cheecking up if you are interested. I was on Mindoro in 2000 but I didnt check up this place, something I really regret. As the wild population is still quite large (around 300) the breeding centre may have aquiared some additional individuals, I have not heard anything from this place in the last 2 years.

I know of only one large zoo in Manila, and that is Manila Zoo. I have not spend any longer periods on Manila and there could very well be some other large zoo in this region, there surely is plenty of small, private owned zoos spread all around Manila and these may be worth checking out.

I have been to the Manila Zoo five times (last time in 2003), things has surely improved over the years but some animals are living in very bad conditions and unless some major improvments is done the place should be shut down. Because of the uncertain fututre of this zoo (has been plans to close it down) alot of non-native animals has left the collection, there is a regular supply of local fauna so its unlikely that the number of these will decrease anytime soon.

I have heard of many people saying that the zoo has a population of wild Tamaraw, something I have not been able to confirm myself, I have seen the domesticated form of Tamaraw in Manila, which is very similar to the wild form in apperence so its very likely that people has confused due to these similarities. Manila could however still have some pure breed Tamaraws but I have never seen any, if that would be the case its probably the only place in the world currently keeping the wild form of Tamaraw.

The zoo keeps a large number of Asian species which is common in zoos pretty much all over Asia, but Manila holds alot of local subspecies, endemic to the Philippines and unlikely to be kept in large numbers outside the country, they have the Palawan forms of bear-cat (probably the most striking subspecies) and bearded pig in their collection, they also have the local forms of long-tailed Macaque, leopard cat, palm civet, small-clawed otter and Palawan Porcupine.

Manila zoo also has a fairly large collection of African mammals, all of them being the usual ones such as lions, hippos, chimps and giraffe. Probbaly keeps more but these are the ones aim remember in my head. They also keep
some species common on mainland Asia, mostly primates. They have never kept more than 1 Asian Elephant to my knowledge, and have at least had 3 over the years I have visited the zoo.

They have been quite succesful in breeding Philippine spotted deer and Calamian hog deer. Keeping Philippine Tarsier, Philippine flying-lemur, Balabac mouse-deer, Golden-crowned flying-fox as well as several other local species of bats, tree shrews and small rodents in the past at least. All of these species is very unusual/non existent in collections outside of the Philippines, some species in Manila has even been kept elsewhere in the Philippines. But they have got rid of alot of species in the last 7 years.

They had at least three different forms of cloudrunners here in the late 1990s (could look up exacly which if there is any interest) but I have never seen any here since 2001.


They keep a variety of local reptiles such as Philippine croc, saltwater croc (none during my last visits but may have got some again), Samar Cobra, Philippine Cobra, Sailfin lizard and a small number of local amphibians. They also had some of the usual S. American and Asian reptiles such as green iguana, rainbow boa, reticulated python, Burmese python, King Cobra and alot of North American turtles such as snappers and sliders. Asian turtles being mainly different chinese and Malaysian box-turtle species.

They keep a number of birds as well. Of the Philippine fauna they keep almost exclusively raptors such as Grass owl, Philippine eagle-owl, Philippine scops owl, Giant scops-owl, Philippine serpent-eagle, White-bellied sea-eagle, Philippine Falcon and Boobok. Other Philippine species they keep is Palawan peacock-pheasant, Philippine haning-parrot, Red-vented Cockatoo,Philippine hornbills and Philippine doves.

The majority of the birds they keep is however Indonesian parrots, S. American parrots and a few species from Africa. They keep african ostrich as well as at least two species of cassowary.

The Manila zoo dont have a good reputation however, neglect of animals is very common it seems, the cages is often very, very old and poorly mantained and most of the paddocks is filthy and both small and boring, many which provide very little shade. It is also one of very few places in the Philippines that has a large amount of non-native animals. There is plenty of discussions and photos from the zoo all over the net. Their organutang incloaser is among the worst I have ever seen and looks to be at least 50-60 years old, they have a big collection of species but many species has moved out while other has vanished as the populations have died out and not been replaced.

A place which backpackers often visit is Father Tropa's Zoo, located on Negros. I have been there two times and the place is really awful to say the least. About 90% is native fauna and its a big shame they are cared for so increadibly bad. I first visited the place 1997.

They used to have a huge crocodile;I saw it living in appaling conditions in 1997, the croc itself was around 6m, largest croc I have ever seen.
The "pond" was about 10m but was only filled with very little water, 20-25cm at most, looked like a green soop. Thankfully the poor croc had its pond located under some trees which gave it some relieaf at least, I was told it was a native Philippine croc (from Luzon) but I doubt that, more likely a freshwater croc. They feed it live goats and dog puppies 1-2 a week, I saw it being feed with live pups on one occasions and it was the most appaling I have ever seen in a zoo. They had a variety of other native Philippine animals such as Red-vented cockatoo, box-turtles (at least 2-3 different, no idea which), Malay civet, leopard cats (some of the distinctive Phillipine subspecies), racquet-tails, Philippine Serpent eagle, Negros Bleeding-heart, Rufous-headed hornbill, tarictic hornbill, Philippine hanging parrot etc. I visited Negros again in 2002 and was determinate not to visit the place again, I was however recommended by other tourists to go as the place had improved very much, so I did go there a second time in 2002.

To my suprise most of the animals I had seen in 1997 was gone, they keept a large variety of local parrots but no much else. The huge croc was said to have died and replaced by another "monster", I didnt care to go and have a look at it but was said to be smaller, "but not much". Apparently they still feed with live animals, "but not as often". The animals looked to be in better condition this time but this dont suprise me, 99% of all animals is illegal wild caught and as they die off they are probably only replaced with new ones, I guess they just had a new "shipment" with animals coming in just before my visit. Illegal trade with animal is big business and Negros is a big market.

I have not been here since and they place might have improved, very well possibly but I have seen reports from people visiting more recently and the conditions is bad, still have "monster crocs" so the place apparently havent been shut down yet. I could give you more detailed info about this place if you are interested, could be a good place to visit if you want to get glimps of a few very rare Philippine endemics.

You are likely to find plenty of these "zoos" if you visit the Philippines. There is plenty of small zoos on pretty much every Island, and all of them is holding mostly species which very rarely i seen in captivity outside the philippines.

Philippine scops-owl as well as Philippine Eagle-owl and Philippine serpent-eagle I have seen basically in every zoo in the philippines.

It would help alot to know how much time (roughly) you plan to spend in each country, travelling in the philippines means alot of Island hopping and this take time. If you plan to stick to the main island, Luzon, travelling around may not take much time but if you plan to visit other islands I can give you some valuable advices.

13-01-2008

Khao Kheow is defenitely doable over a day but its way better to book a hotell room for a few days in some closeby town. I have found it difficult to see the whole park during only just one day, you just get stressed is my opinion.

The best way to get to this area is to rent a own car in Bangkok and then drive on your own, I have done this several times, going by buss from bangkok is not very reaible many times and the busses is either loaded with people, very much delayed, especially during the period of the year.

The main problem with a own car however is to find you way out of Bangkok

I dont know how much you are into birdwatching Pedro, but Khao Soi Dao Wildlife Sanctuary is a very nice NP, located close to the Thai-cambodian border, located some hours east of Pattaya. At the headquarter of this park they have some avaries containing a number of rare and local species, such as the lewisi race of Silver pheasant, Blue-rumped Pitta, Black-throated sunbird, Black-browed fulvetta and Spot-bellied eagle-owl being some species seen by me here in 2006. Some I didnt even see in the NP itself

This place even had a captive Arborophila diversa a few years ago, taken from poachers in the NP.

13-01-2008

Philippines: Just remember some other places I have visited.


The Center for Philippine Raptors: A place which mainly rehabs and take in injured birds from hunters and zoos, they keep mostly raptors but a few other animals as well. They also work as a breeding facility for several Philippine raptors and has done quiet much to promote the conservation of the Philippine eagle. This place is located in Makiling Botanical Gardens, at Los Banos on Luzon.

This place has breed the Philipine Eagle in the past and I believe they still keeps them, but this is not the ultimate place for this species, at least not in captivity They however keep a large number of raptors such as Philippine Eagle-owl, Brahminy Kite, White-bellied Sea-eagle, Philippine scops-owl, Philippine Serpent-eagle, Grass owl and Honey-buzzard being some I last saw here, keep some 10-15 species, not all is raptors.

Philippine Eagle Center: This is probably the best place in the WOLRD to see this truly amazing species. This is such a wonderful place and a true memory of a live time for those that visit. I have been here 4 times now and it has been amazing all times, and will certinely visit again, soon hopefully.

The "problem" with this place is that its not located on Luzon, but on Mindanao, but close to the capital (Davao) which means its a easy place to reach, and there should be no problems what so ever to get in and see the birds. Its a major tourist attraction.

Philippine Eagle Foundation Official Website

Here is their website which states that they currently keep 32 Philippine Eagles, thats more than when I was here the last time, they apparently keep other species but I havent cared to look for these when I have been here.

This is almost a must for everyone visiting the Philippines.

13-01-2008

there is also a good natural history museum in the university in Bangkok which isn't well-known to the general tourist public (when I went they had to unlock the doors just for me). They have specimens of many rare Thai species, many of them donated by Dr. Boonsong.

13-01-2008

Hi Sebbe! Thanks a lot for all these infos!
For now, you see, my schedule is still not well defined... My father lives in Hong Kong so that means I can easily come there at least every two year... so if I miss something on that trip, I'll save it for later, it's not a big deal.
I was thinking of spending two or three days in Manilla, just to see the main zoo and one or two others... then, if you say the philippine eagle center is really worth to visit, i'll add one or two more days in Davao to see them!
I'll probably stick to only one or two islands, leaving the rest for another trip cos else I won't be able to do anything else during my trip...
Including HK, it must not last longer than 45-48 days... after I'll be bankrupt...
I'll get back to you soon with a more detailed schedule! And keep the infos coming, it's really a fantastic help for me!!
Thanks a lot again!

14-01-2008

Hello Pedro,

No problem, just happy to be able to help out as much as I can. I understand it can be hard to plan everything in detail consider its nearly a year left you will go.

I would say 2 days in Manila is enough, its a quite boring city in my opinion and apart from the zoo there is not much to see, unless you are a cultural fanatic that is. Manila Zoo may very well have got some Philippine Eagles by now, they surely dint have it when I visited the place last time. If you only want to stay on Luzon I could give you a few advices were to see the Philippine Eagle in the wild but its probably much easier to travel to the centre on Mindanao and see them there. If youn are interested to spend a longer period (say 1 week for ex) in the Philippines I have plenty of more advices about place worth visiting.

Bali I visited Bali for a few days around New years eve, but I was with a large group of friends and family and I was the only one with slighest interest to go and watch birds in a zoo, we also lived quite far away from the Bird Park on Bali so I never went there, next time hopefully

New Guinea I really hope you visit the Rainforest habitat in Lae, especially to know more about their BOPs, very little is known about this place, which really suprise me. This place is apparently located in the grounds of Papua New Guinea university of technology, I have tried myself to get in contact through the e-mail on The Rainforest Habitat but I have not got any reply. May be worth trying contact anyone on the university itself. I have found a few blogs on the net dating 2005-2006 but nothing since, and they dont mention much.

It is a long time since I last was in the Lae and I only became aware of the Rainforest habitat some years ago.


I have however visited a quite similar place in Port Moresby, the National Capital Botanical Gardens. Its animal collection is smaller than the one in Lae but this place is well worth checking out, I have basically visited it every time I have been in Port Moresby, before heading out in the field.

Its mainly specialisied in plants but has a decent animal collection, almost exclusively New Guinea animals, has also kept and breed a few asian and Australian snake species in the past at least.

National Capital Botanical Gardens - Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea
Here is a species list of what they currently have and as you can see they keep a few rare species such as Dwarf Cassowary, Trumpet Manucode, Common Scrub Fowl, Papuan Mountain Pigeon, Nutmeg pigeon, Stella Lory, Greater Streaked Lory and Red Cheeked Parrot. They are also breeding both of their crowned pigeon species often.

They keep few mammals. My animals favorite animals in this place is their colony with Doria Tree-Kangaroos, has been breeding here for quite a long time now and really interesting to watch them, consider that all captive populations elsewhere has died out.

They have had Giant Bandicoot, Lowland tree Kangaroo and Grizzed Tree Kangaroo here in the past as well.

You are likely to arrive in Port Moresby when you fly to Papua New Guinea and 1 day here is recommended.

15-01-2008

Hi Sebbe!
Thanks again for all these valuable tips!
I strongly wish to go to Papua New Guinea as I'm a huge BoP fan... Going to the rainforest habitat is really my trip's highlight! The only thing I'm afraid of (same for Port Moresby) is the accomodation... As I'll have some expensive photographic gear and a huge piece of luggage, I must find something as safe as possible... Not easy... If you have any idea...

I'll also be really interested in having more trip advice concerning the Philippines... if it"s really interesting, I can leave some indonesia, singapore and malaysia for another time and spend more days in this beautiful country where I've never been!
Again, many thanks for your great help!

15-01-2008

Hello Pedro,

Yes, the security issue is the main problem for anyone visiting New Guinea, especially the larger cities. Port Moresby is not safe walking around on you own and especially not with anything expensive on you, cary as little money as possibly all the time. The city is getting more violent every year it seems and to get robbed is common if you are not causius, i have learnt this the hard way. When you go outside the hotell make sure some staff follow you around.

Get in contact with people in Port Moresby well in advance if you choose to visit this Island, so they can pick you up already when you arrive in the airport. You usually dont experiance much troubles on the airport itself but it just make things easier, to get to the hotell for ex. As I rarely spend more than 1-2 nights in Port Moresby and I therefore usually stay at very basic hotells, and the security and comfort in these are not the best, even the hotell staff has stolen things from me. There is however several good, safe and decent priced hotells in Port Moresby and I could look ask around if you want to, some of these I advice you to stay at, even if they may be a bit more pricey than alot of other options.

When I last visited Lae (in 1994) it was still a quite peacful and friendly city, but you better check out the situation before you go. Most larger cities on New Guinea unfortunely has a very high crime rate and from what I have read at the net it may is getting more and more violent here as well. Many hotells in Lae has closed down, mainly becuase many tourists choose to just pass by the city. The last hotell I stayed at in Lae has closed down since and I dont know of many options about were to stay, but i could ask around with that also if you want to.

From what I have been able to found out there is a accomandation inside the Rainforest Habitat, but I dont nothing about this place.

15-01-2008

Pedro,

Lae collection used to have website. Maybe you can contact there.

If you make trouble to visit Lae, you might as well see some BoPs and other New Guinean birds in the wild. There is Varirata national park close to Port Moresby, which has several BoPs and paradise-kingfishers. Check websites e.g. eurobirding.com for birder's trip reports.

16-01-2008

Avilon Zoo - Home Page

Avilon Zoo in Quezon city, I have only been briefly once (30min) but seems to be way better than Manila, also said to be the largest zoo in the Philippines, very possibly but cant say more as I hardly been there.

16-01-2008

Thanks!!! Now I must see where Quezon city is located and how to get there without spending too much money!
After what you said concerning New Guinea, I still want to go there, but I think that if I manage to find a secure place to stay, I'll only do Lae.. Port Moresby seems to be really unsecure and I don't want to make a gracious gift (I mean by that my clothes, my photographic gear, portable computer) to new guinean people....
I'm also thinking about visiting you in Myanmar... but that is a whole other thing to organize...