[CZJimmy]

Going back to the animal escape, Born Free have reacted...
Zoo 'shoot to kill' action out of order - Scotsman.com News

[kiang]

overreact you mean.

[CZJimmy]

Well yes, "Scandal" seems a harsh word to use for this story...

[ZooMania]

What a stupid over reaction. Just to point out, they use 2005's chimp escape from flamingoland as recent. 2005 isnt recent.

[Kifaru Bwana]

Originally Posted by CZJimmy Going back to the animal escape, Born Free have reacted... Zoo 'shoot to kill' action out of order - Scotsman.com News

I would say this whole Born Free group along with Zoo Check are well out of order. I say ... psychiatric evaluation with consequent forced admittance to a psychiatric ward for total schizophreniacs for the whole lot (and take in those mangy Taronga Greens also who blame themselves being elephant experts).

[CZJimmy]

Originally Posted by jelle I would say this whole Born Free group along with Zoo Check are well out of order. I say ... psychiatric evaluation with consequent forced admittance to a psychiatric ward for total schizophreniacs for the whole lot (and take in those mangy Taronga Greens also who blame themselves being elephant experts).

Don't forget CAPS!!

[Jurek7]

Yes, I wonder if they ever seen a live monkey? Maybe then they would know why it is hard to dart one...

[Kifaru Bwana]

I just thought ... the funny thing with these people (Born Free, Zoo Check, CAPS and mangy Taronga Greens) ... if a wild elephant would meet up with one of them and misdirected as they seem to be he/she would go for stroking the elephant it would probably slap them in the face And that would be the end of the whole damn thing ..... (a slap is usually DEADLY accurate)

[ZooMania]

Zoo Check, CAPS and Born Free are just totally stupid and deluded people who still think that every zoo treats its animals bad. I'll admit that there are some bad zoos in other countries but theres no need for them to come down like a tun of bricks on good british zoos everytime something happens.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by ZooMania Zoo Check, CAPS and Born Free are just totally stupid and deluded people who still think that every zoo treats its animals bad. I'll admit that there are some bad zoos in other countries but theres no need for them to come down like a tun of bricks on good british zoos everytime something happens.

Unfortunately, Zoo Check/Born Free was set up with the aim of trying to close all Zoos. Its an 'across the board' approach and there's no tolerance of anything good that happens in zoos at all.

As its increasingly hard for them to find bad publicity about the zoos they want to target, even the smallest incident nowdays is seized on and blown up out of all proportion.

[snowleopard]

Organizations like Zoo Check, CAPS and Born Free are for the most part anti-everything to do with zoos. They advocate the abolishment of keeping wild animals in captivity, and often latch onto small events and blow them up much larger than life in order to sway public opinion.

However, one purpose that they do serve is to increase awareness of captive animal conditions, and by criticizing zoo enclosures there is an opportunity for zoos to improve exhibits that require a greater allotment of space. Therefore these organizations do have a vital role to play in the greater good of the animals. Have some of you guys seen photos of zoos from Japan, China, Thailand, etc? The conditions at many Asian zoos are so bad that I think the animals are better off dead then living in tiny concrete boxes and being continuously taunted by members of the public. Anti-zoo establishments complain and sometimes create an opportunity for improvements in the worst zoos of the world. There are more terrible zoos than good ones.

[Pertinax]

Originally Posted by snowleopard Have some of you guys seen photos of zoos from Japan, China, Thailand, etc? The conditions at many Asian zoos are so bad that I think the animals are better off dead then living in tiny concrete boxes and being continuously taunted by members of the public. Anti-zoo establishments complain and sometimes create an opportunity for improvements in the worst zoos of the world. There are more terrible zoos than good ones.

Oh yes, they live in appalling conditions sometimes. There was a big stink a year or so ago when Rotterdam Zoo sent three gorillas to Shanghai in China, even though it was publicised that a brand new enclosure was being built for them. Chinese zoos generally have a bad reputation and Shanghai still has animal circus acts using chained animals etc (not that the Gorillas would be involved in that). Then there are(still) the chinese bear bile farms(not zoos I know) and some of the Asian zoos have terrible conditions too. Animals in those coiuntries are just not respected with the same values as we in the west hold.

I agree Zoo Check etc can do some good with their campaigns in those countries except that appealling to people for funding in the west is likely to largely fall in deaf ears as we don't see it for ourselves. And unfortunately they still seem to attack western zoos with equal fervour, ranking the smallest item of supposed 'bad practise' in a western zoo as equal to the major problems animals face in Zoos in the far East.

[ZooYouthBen]

From the edinburgh thread,

[Jurek7]

Hi, snowleopard, I symapthise with your care about animals and probably all other members think the same.

Originally Posted by snowleopard Organizations like Zoo Check, CAPS and Born Free are for the most part anti-everything to do with zoos.

Yes, they think deer in forest park is as bad as in tiny paddock of 19. century menagerie. Both deer are "not free". So they are disinterested in actual deer well being.

Originally Posted by snowleopard Have some of you guys seen photos of zoos from Japan, China, Thailand, etc?

Who ever heard of Zoo Check, CAPS, Born Free etc. doing anything for zoos in China, Japan or Thailand? No action, no result. They only attack good zoos, because they have biggest publicity.

However, I feel that discussing them is already giving them publicity which they don't deserve.

So I support WWF, Wildlife Conservation Society, BirdLife International. They help animals stay free (but not necesarily happy). They fight poachers, create national parks, give local education etc.

What about thread about which conservation organizations to support?

[patrick]

once again grant and snowleopard - i'm with you guys.

most zoos in the world are for the most part lousy and animal welfare groups are welcome to attack them as much as they like as far as i'm concerned.

in regards to sending animals to zoos like china, lets be honest. it a bit hypocritical of western nations to be up in arms about our zoos sending them animals when we are only too happy to take a panda.

maybe its best we said you can have gorillas - so long as welfare is an issue at the whole zoo ie; no bad enclosures