bear breeding

24-08-2008

What are you suggesting Dan? That Zoo's breed there bears for publicity then kill them later on?

If all places that kept wild animal's stuck to studbook recomendations then there should be place availble for new cubs. But unfortunitely so places play by their own rules.

24-08-2008

Don´t you know, Taun, that this is a fairly usual practise in zoos? Not just with bears. This goes on with other species, as well. I am sure that the professional zoo keepers, of which there must be a few on this forum, will confirm my statement?

24-08-2008

Know I didn't and still find this quite hard to believe in this day and age!

Am sure there prob has been a couple of cases but this cannot happen in every zoo because they would all get shut down.

24-08-2008

Well, I have read about this so many times that I have, so to speak, gotten used to the fact and therefore it is not possible for me to supply you with specific internet links and such.

But, really, think about it....... some species seem to be very easily bred in captivity, even though the circumstances might be horrible. Let´s take european brown bears or lions as examples. Basically every zoo holding these species every year advertize "the new cubs" and make a big fuzz about it. Where are all these cubs couple of years later? Remember, for instance, that half of them are males.............

Again, I would welcome input from zoo professionals on this matter.

Also, since I am new to this forum, maybe I should emphasize that I don´t totally subscribe to animal rights activist´s views on zoos, but I respect them and I hope that it will be possible for me to sometimes raise critical views on the subjects that we discuss on this forum.

24-08-2008

Sorry dan but from what i`ve seen of some of your other posts on zoobeat i would say you have quite a strong leaning to the zoo anti brigade,i would like to see you name the collections that you say have abused Elephants using free contact method of keeping because i`m not aware of any in the U.K or Europe,i do know in the past some have been mis-treated in circuses but not within the last 20 years.

24-08-2008

There isn't much info about it on the web but in Chinese newspapers I've read that Malaysian and Thai have high success with Sun bears. There was an article as well I remember that an Asian Black bear had been born in a Thai zoo, I don't know which one though,

25-08-2008

Zoogiraffe,

No, you overinterpret my views here a bit. I am genuinely interested in zoos and does not oppose them on priciple. And it is not my intention at all to start angry debates in a forum that I am completely new to. As for your question, I believe that most bad examples I read about referred to America, rather than the UK or Europe.

25-08-2008

But then again, Zoogiraffe

As a zoo professional, can you or can you not, confirm what I have written about the killings of bear cubs etc? It would be of interest to all of us here at this website.

"We" are not your average zoo visitor, "we" are actually genuinely concerned with all sorts of matters regarding zoos.

Please reply to this!

25-08-2008

Could you please tell in which zoos it is usual practice?

In my local zoos, for example, bears hardly ever are bred. Those spectacled and polar bear cubs from Germany and Austria are well, to my knowledge.

25-08-2008

Dan, you want somebody say that he can be sure that no zoo in the world never did something within last unspecified number of years?

If it is so "usual" I'm sure you can pull several newspaper quotes yourself.

25-08-2008

I can think about amny solutions which zoos are using (for cubs which have to be separated from parents):

rear spaces
another exhibit
change with other zoos (it is often about not inbreeding or forming bachelor groups)
temporary deponation
contraceptive
castration
reintroduction
semiwild colonies
selling offsprings off (it is bad but it obviously occuir in some zoos; on the other hand there are zoos which would never do this)

Director of Prague Zoo said he don't want his Zoo to produce surplus animals if there is not space for them. I'm certain many zoos do the same. Conservation programs apart, examples of previously mentioned solutions in Prague:
- barbary sheep are reproducing well here and it is usually hard to find a place for them in other zoos; there are a spacious rock exhibit so only surplus males are problematic; they castrated non-dominant males to keep them in the group with any turmoils
- european wolves - prague wolfpack is 5;1 consisting of alpha female on contraceptive, alpha male and four their sons from last two litters; other cubs of the pair are in other zoos and some of them were reintroduced (don't remember exactly where)
- there are separated male herds and female herds of species such as kiangs, kulans because of the low demand from other zoos
- some young individuals of european bison, adax, Przewalski's horse,... reintroduced in their natural habitat
-night heron became wild within zoo's area; prairie dogs are free to expand to adjacent exhibits (started in bison(canada goose exhibit, prefered the next one with camels nad are expanding further this direction)

25-08-2008

dan i`m not a zoo professional but if i was i would not confirm or deny that animals where bred for getting visitors through the gates for the simple fact that it would give the zoo-anti brigade ammunation that they don`t need,as they make up and misinterpret to much stuff already,the reason i say this is i know people who have been on the wrong end of these peoples lies and ignorance of what goes on in zoo`s.

26-08-2008

Dan

As I am one person on this forum that has zoo experience, I can tell you that no animal bred in a zoo I worked for have deliberately bred animals for PR purposes and then euthanased.

The only exception of a species deliberately bred with the knowledge that the offspring would be culled was at a park I worked at that had wild boar. Obviously the piglets were very popular with the visitors, but so that we not swamped with alot of hungry mouths each year, all of the piglets were culled at ~9 months old. Some of the meat was dished out to staff, but most went to feeding wolves. I don't personally have a problem. The pigs had a very happy life and a good clean death. The meat would have had to be sourced from another outlet, where we would have had no control over its life. Plenty of rabbits, goats, rodents and invertebrates have similarly been used in many zoos.

But going back to more traditional zoo animals I would say that the practice of essentially breeding for publicity in most western zoos would be nil. The simple fact is that zoos are too regulated (both through government control and zoo associations) and also would come under widespread criticism from the public and staff. When talking specifically about 'good' zoos, no collection tries to breed irresponsibly. This happens often enough due to poor management through either animal husbandry or staff experience (mistakes do happen). I can tell you that I have been on the rough end of a management decision to cull offspring of a popular animal, in secret, due to poor management (in this case to prevent breeding; no home for the surplus). It isn't something I ever wish to have to do again. However no one in the zoo community would condone the deliberate culling of a surplus individual if it's only purpose was for PR. I would not want to say that this practice doesn't occur in less-regulated zoos in third-world countries.

26-08-2008

On the other hand ... http://www.zoobeat.com/109/berlin-bit-bother-15100/ ... disturbing...

26-08-2008

OK, thanks so much for the sincere input from everybody! I will think hard, do some web research and come back on the subject. May take a few days.