I hope this will be similar to the 'Religeon In zoos thread'. A number of zoos claim to have gay animals and someeven have gay events. What do people think about the representation of hosexuaality in zoos? Are zoos the place for homosexuality? In my opinion im all for it, but what are your thoughts and opinions?
I'm with you foz i agree that zoos should encourage visits and organise events to include all members of society no matter what their sexuality, religion or whatever. Homosexual animals is a totally different debate.
The scientific and anecdotal evidence of homosexuality in non-human animals is pretty well established - so I don't think its existence can be easily questioned. Whether it has a consistent evolutionary benefit or is just something that happens is more of a debate - there can be a definite benefit to having non-breeding animals around for some social animals - they can give more time to hunting, for example. As to the question, 'are zoos the place for homosexuality?', I'm not sure how to answer the question. My honest response is 'why on Earth not?'. It feels to me a very different issue from religion. I guess for me the reason it's different from religion in zoos in that the presence of religion can (certainly not always) impact on the educational message (see Noah's). I would struggle to think of any situation in which the presence of gay visitors, staff or animals would do this, or indeed have any negative impact at all.
I'd be interested in hearing the test that would need to be administered at the Entrance Gate to weed out the homosexual visitors.
Yes, I'm rather assuming foz is thinking of events like London's Gay Sunday, rather than gay visitors in general! The prospect of random sexuality tests on the way in is alarming in many many ways...
It is a shame to my thinking that anyone would even care (I recognize that neither foz nor any subsequent poster did care). And yet: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/29/nyregion/29asylum.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper
Awful situation. Anyone with any faith left in humanity after that, check out this opinion piece from the UK's Daily Mail hatepaper. Sorry, newspaper. No, right the first time. It came to my attention via Twitter. Gayness mandatory in schools: Gay victims of prejudice to become new McCarthyites | Mail Online This is a paper that sells 2m copies a month. Horrible rag.
Totally agree, it's all the more insidious because unlike the other tabloids it somehow manages to convince a lot of people that it's a a quality newspaper. At least people are under no illusions with the other tabloids (though I've got to say the Express amuses me with the obsessiveness often displayed on it's front pages). Sorry, I know I've gone off-thread, it's just that the Daily Mail brings out a Pavlovian reaction in me.
I look forward to the day when this is not a topic for debate, activism or curious well meaning discussion. Like women and voting, and black people riding on a bus, were both topics for debate and required change. Now it is hard to imagine why people thought they should not be treated as equal. Homosexuality has come a long way in the past 40 years. Unfortunately in many places in the world people are being killed for behaving in a way that is instinctive to them. Interestingly now the ones that "look" gay now are often straight and the so called "straight" looking guys are often gay. With regards to zoos and homosexuality, It would seem that a very high percentage of zoo staff are gay! So the gay public might as well be welcomed as well LOL
Personal experience and observation, Would you seriously disagree? Am l way off the mark? Statistically 1 in 10 of the population in western countries identifies as same sex attracted. From my experience i would say that 1 in 4 of the zoo staff including horticultural identify as gay.
G'day Stuart, It's not a question that we ask potential staff because, quite frankly, we don't give a damn. However, based on your suggested criteria for assessing visitors, I think that you are way off the mark. "Great shoes" - not after a day spent shovelling crap! "Bank balance" - not on the wages we pay! "Great skin" - working outdoors in the Queensland sun? Not likely! Our staff would have to be as straight as a die! Your 1:54pm post #10 hit the mark. I don't know of any zoo where the sexual preferences of staff, visitors or even the animals, is an issue of any interest to anyone other than the participants.
Hi Steve, Work wear and day wear very different Steve, Trust me on this Steve, a gay guy would have at least two pairs of shoes one pair for work and another pair for "outings" LOL
Clearly we all agree! However I have yet to come across any signs or educational board cocnerning homoseuxality in animals, (with possible links to the evolutionary importance). I should like to this (relatively) newly studied elemeent of animal behaviour be more included in zoo education.
Lorenz & others have suggested that geese trios [two paired ganders that have subsequently acquired a female to share] command better feeding areas and are better at defending their goslings -- evolutionary advantage?
I know quite a few gay men and lesbian zoo keepers. No one cares to be honest. Although I did note that a friend of mine felt the owner of one zoo he worked at rather homophobic when he found out he was gay; but that was many, many years ago and this could be said about society in general at that time - Daily Mail readers excluded Interestingly, of course, if a zoo was to try and stop gay men or women from visiting zoos etc in the UK it would be illegal. On the subject of homosexual animals that a interesting issue. Of course, having none breeding animals within social groups maybe of an advantage. I know some research on African lions showed that groups of related young males would ousts the resident pride male although their was no guarantee that they would actually mate with the females. However, even so if their brother did they would still be involved in the gene pool of future generations.
I know there are a number of same sex pairings of gentoo penguins that are often used as surrigate parents (and make a fantastic job of it too). I often point out that if animals can accept same sex couples why can't we? I've found that the zoo community in general is rpobably the most accepting of all. Probably why I like zoos so much. For staff at zoos (and this should apply everywhere) sexuality, as with race, shouldn't be of importance at all. It's all about ability to do the job and having an understanding of modern zoo practices. For visitors, all that matters is you enjoy your day and hopefully learn something as well.
