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Asian & African elephants in the United states 2013 (Zoos only)

 
 
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  #16
Old 11-05-2013

* So these are the zoos that have to expand their herds in the next couple of years: Woodland Park Zoo (do they count since their African cannot mix with the Asian?), Miami Metropark Zoo (once again only two for their Asian, but they have enough for their African so I'm not sure), Virginia Zoo, Milwaukee County Zoo, Greenville Zoo, Louisville Zoo (mixed), Lee Richardson Zoo, Sedgwick County Zoo, Topeka (mixed), Seneca Park Zoo, Six Flag Marine World (mixed), Point Defiance Zoo, Fresno Chaffe Zoo, Santa Barbara Zoo, El Paso Zoo, Buttonwood Zoo, Audubon Zoo, Buffalo Zoo, and Honolulu Zoo. That's quite a few zoos! It should be interesting to see what happens in the next few years...

* I am glad to see Dallas has more than two -- I read an article yesterday stating they only had two elephants and I did not think this was correct.

* I am glad if Tuffy gets moved from Maryland Zoo since he shows horrible stereotypical behaviors. I just hope the new male doesn't gain them there!
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  #17
Old 11-05-2013

The Smithsonian National Zoo is not currently breeding their elephants. They have plans to in the future but it's not happening right now. Their current male is the son of one of the two female elephants and I don't think is breeding yet.

*I believe the Oregon Zoo has 2.4 (maybe 3?).

If anyone is interested: Bronx's 0.3 are Indian (by the way, only two are together as the third is anti-social), Smithsonian's male is Sri Lankan as is his mother and the other female is Indian (the arriving female is also Sri Lankan), and Cincinnati's male and one of their females are Malaysian and the other two females are Indian, and I believe Oregon has 2.2 Indian (maybe 2.1), 0.1 Malaysian, and 0.1 Bornean Pygmy. Those are the only ones I know.

@filipinos, I don't think it's believed African Bush Elephants have subspecies anymore but if so I think all U.S. elephants are L. a. africana.

*Not including the new calf that's a MalaysianXIndian cross.

~Thylo
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  #18
Old 11-05-2013

Oh ok, yeah I knew Ajani would be the main breeder from the herd. The exhibit is designed to hold up to 6 Bulls. With Jackson's genes being over-represented and Tamani being young, Birmingham will likely have the base 3 for a while. At one time Thabo-Usami (the elephant from Germany that killed a trainer when he was still pretty young) was considered but went to another Zoo when they decided to match the father/son pair of Bulwagi and Tamani. They sent Callee and Ajani at 10 (hard to believe that was nearly 3 years ago), and Tamani at 8 but because he is Bulwagis offspring.

The exhibits concept is for over the long term a rotation of Bulls (except "retired" Bulwagi and probably Callee) from other zoos. I just didn't know if there were any about to enter their teenage years in order to replace Ajani who seems to be the next to leave to be a breeder somewhere.

From the sounds of Tuffy, I would be worried to place him in a herd with Bulwagi considering Bulwagi's timid nature.
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  #19
Old 11-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by blospz View Post
* So these are the zoos that have to expand their herds in the next couple of years: Woodland Park Zoo (do they count since their African cannot mix with the Asian?), Miami Metropark Zoo (once again only two for their Asian, but they have enough for their African so I'm not sure), Virginia Zoo, Milwaukee County Zoo, Greenville Zoo, Louisville Zoo (mixed), Lee Richardson Zoo, Sedgwick County Zoo, Topeka (mixed), Seneca Park Zoo, Six Flag Marine World (mixed), Point Defiance Zoo, Fresno Chaffe Zoo, Santa Barbara Zoo, El Paso Zoo, Buttonwood Zoo, Audubon Zoo, Buffalo Zoo, and Honolulu Zoo. That's quite a few zoos! It should be interesting to see what happens in the next few years...

* I am glad to see Dallas has more than two -- I read an article yesterday stating they only had two elephants and I did not think this was correct.

* I am glad if Tuffy gets moved from Maryland Zoo since he shows horrible stereotypical behaviors. I just hope the new male doesn't gain them there!
Woodland Park- They have a focus group which will be evaluating the long term feasibility of the elephant program. But with 0.1 African and 0.2 Asian, they technically meet the new guidelines.

Miami Metro- The Asian and African elephants are housed separately. So they are fine with their Asians, 1.2 is a acceptable grouping. But they will need to source an additional animal for the African exhibit.

Sedgwick County- Has recently presented a down-sized version of their new elephant enclosure plan to city council. I'm unsure of the outcome. But their director is on the board of the NEC and he has said that sending the girls there until the exhibit is constructed would be a feasible option.

Fresno- Is sending away its two Asian elephants (probably to San Diego Zoo) in favor of a breeding African elephant herd. With an enclosure opening 2014.

Seneca park- Expanded its exhibit last year to accommodate a third elephant (potentially a bull)

Honolulu- Is bringing in a bull if its final attempts to AI Vagai fail.

Santa Barbara/El Paso/Point Defiance- have all voiced interest in bringing in Indian Rhinoceros once one of their two elephants die.

Milwaukee-The zoo has presented plans for an elephant expansion

I believe Six flags marine world is just an affiliate of the AZA, so they won't face repercussion following 2016. However it would be logical for their lone female African-Valerie- to be sent to a zoo requiring a third elephant.




@Thylacinealive Shanthi (Kandula's mother) is Sri Lankan as well. She is currently being AI'd, and Bozie (the female from Baton Rouge) is a definite breeding candidate. So I would consider them to be currently breeding.
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  #20
Old 11-05-2013

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Originally Posted by ThylacineAlive View Post
*I believe the Oregon Zoo has 2.4 (maybe 3?).
~Thylo
They have 4.4
Rama 1.0
Packy 1.0
Tusko 1.0
Samudra 1.0
SungSurin 0.1
Chendra 0.1
Rose-Tu 0.1
Lily 0.1
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  #21
Old 11-05-2013

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Originally Posted by loxodontaafrica View Post
@Thylacinealive Shanthi (Kandula's mother) is Sri Lankan as well. She is currently being AI'd, and Bozie (the female from Baton Rouge) is a definite breeding candidate. So I would consider them to be currently breeding.
I included Shanthi- "...Smithsonian's male is Sri Lankan as is his mother..."

And I was unaware of the AI so, yes, I'd consider them breeding.

~Thylo
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  #22
Old 11-05-2013

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Originally Posted by loxodontaafrica View Post
They have 4.4
Rama 1.0
Packy 1.0
Tusko 1.0
Samudra 1.0
SungSurin 0.1
Chendra 0.1
Rose-Tu 0.1
Lily 0.1
So is it 3.1 Indian, 0.1 Malaysian, 0.1 Bornean Pygmy, and 0.1 (Lily) MalaysianXIndian?

I know Oregon has the only Bornean Pygmy Elephant in the United States but does anyone know of any Sumatran Elephants in the U.S.?

~Thylo
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  #23
Old 11-05-2013

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Originally Posted by ThylacineAlive View Post
I know Oregon has the only Bornean Pygmy Elephant in the United States but does anyone know of any Sumatran Elephants in the U.S.?

~Thylo
Rose-Tu, Rama, Sung Surin, and Packy are all Cambodian/Thai elephants.

AND sorry! I misread what you said about Kandula and Shanthi!
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  #24
Old 11-05-2013

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Originally Posted by tschandler71 View Post
From the sounds of Tuffy, I would be worried to place him in a herd with Bulwagi considering Bulwagi's timid nature.
Is Tuffy an aggressive male?
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  #25
Old 11-05-2013

I don't know I was just going of Loxo was saying
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  #26
Old 11-05-2013

The director of Buttonwood Park Zoo said that while the elephant facility at the zoo is older, an improvement is planned for the near future, which might imply additional elephants, perhaps?
Buttonwood Park Zoo Director Says Their Elephants Are Well Cared For
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  #27
Old 11-05-2013

If true BZF, it seems we are building more Elephant facilities (and wasting the money going into them) than we have elephants.
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  #28
Old 11-05-2013

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Originally Posted by tschandler71 View Post
If true BZF, it seems we are building more Elephant facilities (and wasting the money going into them) than we have elephants.
What? Improved elephant centers are mainly built to give the already existing elephants more comfortable and naturalistic homes. The number of elephants that can comfortably fit in them is just a number and not at all a reality. Smithsonian's new elephant center, for example, has a capacity of 12 adult Asian Elephants. But will they have that much? No, they currently have 1.2 and will soon have 1.3. And where will this fourth elephant come from? A zoo that's getting rid of them. We aren't building more elephant facilities than elephants. If an elephant center is built it's to provide current elephants a better home and/or to provide a home for elephants that are known to be going to them. We don't build random elephant centers for the hell of it without having elephants to live in them, we build them for the elephants currently in existence. And don't forget that new elephants are being born. There are currently calves at St. Louis, Oregon, Lowry Park, ect. and there appears to be other expected mothers as well. And providing an amazing and highly endangered species with a better home is not a waste of money. Quite the opposite actually.

~Thylo
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  #29
Old 11-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardsleyZooFan View Post
The director of Buttonwood Park Zoo said that while the elephant facility at the zoo is older, an improvement is planned for the near future, which might imply additional elephants, perhaps?
Buttonwood Park Zoo Director Says Their Elephants Are Well Cared For
They've been talking about expanding/renovating their exhibit for years. Doing an Asian area for their girls and bringing in G O-H Rhinos as well. Lack of funding, things fell through. I believe their Director stepped down, too. All leading to things being left up in the air. The exhibit hasn't changed much since the late 80's, just the shade structure is new-ish. There's really no space to expand around the Ele exhibit. They're up for reaccreditation next year. I doubt they will keep their Eles, as funding will never happen to comply with the AZA changes. I just hope their girls can stay together.
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  #30
Old 11-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThylacineAlive View Post
What? Improved elephant centers are mainly built to give the already existing elephants more comfortable and naturalistic homes. The number of elephants that can comfortably fit in them is just a number and not at all a reality. Smithsonian's new elephant center, for example, has a capacity of 12 adult Asian Elephants. But will they have that much? No, they currently have 1.2 and will soon have 1.3. And where will this fourth elephant come from? A zoo that's getting rid of them. We aren't building more elephant facilities than elephants. If an elephant center is built it's to provide current elephants a better home and/or to provide a home for elephants that are known to be going to them. We don't build random elephant centers for the hell of it without having elephants to live in them, we build them for the elephants currently in existence. And don't forget that new elephants are being born. There are currently calves at St. Louis, Oregon, Lowry Park, ect. and there appears to be other expected mothers as well. And providing an amazing and highly endangered species with a better home is not a waste of money. Quite the opposite actually.

~Thylo
You missed my point Thylo, it seems every two bit zoo with a bad asian exhibit has decided to try and upgrade instead of consolidating bigger herds at the bigger and better zoos is my point. Just because the AZA is mandating 3 by 2015, I would ideally like to see fewer zoos with larger herds. I still think 3 is too small of a "herd" especially female herds. Now male africans should be maintained either by themselves or in 3-8 member bachelor herds but ideally in 20 years you would see fewer zoos with elephants and those zoos with the space ala North Carolina and Nashville having large natural sized female herds.
 


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