Jaguar-tiger hybrid?

Jaguar-tiger hybrid?
08-06-2011

They say that the world's only tiguar lives in the Altiplano zoo in Mexico... according to some websites his name is Mickey and he is very healthy despite his well, being a hybrid. However, there are absolutely no pics of the animal anywhere. I called the guys in the Altiplano zoo but couldn´t locate the director to ask for more info, but the guy who answered the phone told me that indeed, they have a tiguar.

Does anyone else know about this? Or even, does anyone have pictures of the cat?

28-01-2012

A zoologist has found what he believes is a photo of the Altiplano zoo tiguar, but he warns that in some websites the photo is said to be of a tigon or another sort of hybrid:



There has been snow recently in Tlaxcala so the argument that this couldn´t be the tiguar because it doesn´t snow in Mexico is actually invalid.
My question is, has any of you seen this photo or this animal before? If this is indeed the tiguar from the Tlaxcala zoo then it may be the only photo of such a hybrid in existence.

28-01-2012

the photo doesn't really look how I would expect a jaguar X tiger to look, with neither spots nor any stripes to speak of, but of course who really knows what one would look like?! (Still, it looks like a liger or tigon to me)

There's a Zoochat thread here about jaguar X lion hybrids: Jaglions - Half Jaguar, Half Lion
And some photos in this gallery: Tring Natural History Museum Gallery

EDIT: I'm guessing the zoologist you mention in your post is Karl Shuker. On his site he includes the above photo and a still from a youtube video of probably the same cat which he equates with Mickey: http://karlshuker.blogspot.com/2011/...t-tiguars.html

28-01-2012

I also seem to phantom more a non jaguar ancestor in this pic hybrid ..
Not saying I doubt the Altiplano claim ...

Would again be nice to see more of this zoo. Never heard of it ... but hey that is not a measure of quality. So, looking forward to it ...

29-01-2012

To be honest, I've heard its not a very good zoo, and there was some controversy surrounding it not so long ago- low security, stolen animals, even rumors of the local authorities making a profit by selling the zoo's animals to unknown bidders and then making the oficial statement that the animals had died or that they were being kept quarantined (even zookeepers declared that this wasn´t true and that the animals were basically being harvested from the zoo by the authorities with unknown purposes). The enclosures are also said to be low quality. I have never been to the zoo so I can´t confirm or refute all of this by myself, but it doesn´t have a very good reputation.

And of course, I suposse this may make some wonder if we can actually believe the tiguar claim from this zoo- I've always thought its strange that such a unique animal is given no publicity by the zoo at all. I mean, I know the breeding of hybrids is considered unethical by many zoos, but a relatively small zoo in a relatively poor country would be expected to take advantage of such a creature- a tiguar could be the star of the park, and yet, there are no official photos, no official website (at all) and almost nothing known about the cat. I myself phoned the zoo and asked if I could possibly be sent some pictures of the tiguar for a project I was working on- the caretaker told me that he thought there would be no problem, but that I had to talk to the zoo owners, and then every time I called in subsequent days no one would pick up the phone.

What frustrates me the most, though, is that I haven´t been able to locate anyone who has visited the zoo to ask if they have seen the cat themselves- as I'm told it is indeed kept in exhibition.

29-01-2012

I have some doubts about the truth of the "tiguar" story, for similar reasons to Adam Khor's post above. I would also question Shuker's equation of the above photo with the still from the youtube video. The cage on the video is what looks like a small old barred type cage, and yet the photo above seems like a staged photo taken outside with a tame cat (but it is not apparently an official photo from the zoo; in fact I would suggest that it in all likelihood it was taken in the USA and has nothing to do with the Mexican animal at all). There may be a hybrid jaguar X tiger at the Altiplano Zoo....or it may just be a publicity story. I don't think the photo has anything to do with it though.

The youtube video is below, and the cat is shown in two different still shots at minute 3.00 and minute 3.09. It doesn't look anything like the cat in the photo posted on this thread!

29-01-2012

The photo's setting may make sense though because recently it was announced that the cat was given a new, larger and open enclosure. I guess it was in the cage only when it was small.
This is precisely why I want to find someone who has been there :S

Jaguar-tiger hybrid?
29-01-2012

This looks to me more like a Tigon than anything else, as does the one in the video [and what a boring video -- admittedly I can't get sound on my computer -- but it was mainly PEOPLE, which I see quite enough of in my day job.....]

30-01-2012

PROFEPA (the mexican enviromental agency) detected illegal animal trafficking at the zoologico del altiplano, tlaxcala during 2011. If you google profepa and zoologico del altiplano you can find the ugly news. Felines and bears are missing. The news report do not state what is being done to remedy this terrible situation. I am certain this would not have occured at the reputable mexican animal collections like chapultepec zoo, africam safari puebla, or guadalajara zoo. This news speaks of the standards at this place in Tlaxcala. A question made by many mexican citizens in these cases of ugly corruption, who is responsible and will that person be legally sentenced ?

30-01-2012

The cat in the snow (the still photo) appears to be a different animal than the one in the video. The still photo animal has stripes on its face that are missing in the video animal. Also, the still photo cat is a much younger animal, with the characteristic pink nose of a young cat, while the video cat is older with a black nose.

I am not sure what the cat in the snow is (but tigon seems likely). The cat in the video could be the aformentioned cross however. If you freeze the video (hit the pause button) at the 3:10 mark and look closely on the flank of the body, you can see a very faint rosette pattern.

30-01-2012

The one in the video doesn´t look like an adult to me...

30-01-2012

while I agree the two cats are certainly not the same individuals, I'm not sure about the rosettes you can see on the video one. The photo in the clip is a blow-up and so is somewhat pixelated, hence the apparent markings may be an artifact of this (although it looks like there are reddish spots on the forelimb as well).

I can see this turning into an interesting (and probably ultimately unsolvable) mystery.

27-03-2012

The animal on the photo with snow is Zita, a female liger at Novosibirsk zoo , Russia.

27-03-2012

as for the the animal in the video - that is a young lioness.

27-03-2012

it certainly does look exactly like Zita (a definite photo of her here, in this rather odd article: A 'dash of lion and a pinch of tiger' - recipe to resurrect ancient subspecies | Russia | RIA Novosti). Someone needs to tell Shuker this I guess

However I don't think the animal in the video is a pure lion. It looks like a young lioness in the first shot but certainly not in the second shot (at 3.09).