Elephants for Australian Zoos

elephant contact etc
28-12-2004

The Auckland zoo staff will not let anyone get close enough to have any physical contact with the elephants -- and quite often the public causes more problems than the elephants ever do ! Hence the time of elephant walks are kept secret , and are never the same route or time on any given day . This is also to prevent the elephants from getting into a boring routine -- they never know from one day to the next as to when they will have a walk somewhere

The elephants will not go anywhere while there is a large crowd blocking the way and the keepers are very strict on that rule -- no one must touch an elephant . If the elephant wants to touch someone with their trunk , that is a different matter . But the elephants are not encouraged to do such things .

I am very surprised that many American Zoos have African elephants , as these are more stubborn and stroppy than Asian elephants . And as for keeping African bull elephants in a ( city ) zoo , that almost defies belief !
With the zoo news talking about keepers being injured/killed by elephants , do they state whether it was a bull or cow , Asian or African , zoo born or wild born ?
Both Kashin and Burma are very placid elephants . If either caused any difficulty to the keepers , the walks will suddenly cease .

africans vs asians
29-12-2004

the zoo in colombo sri lanka (might i just add here that i can believe so many of the beuatiful people and places i visted in this country have recently been swept away!, so depressing) has both asian and african elephants. they explained to me something that i have heard before. african elephants are not so much as stubborn or more difficult to train, but the respond to very differnt methods to the humble asians. africans are very sensitive, and i have heard that since people in africa have been trying differnt methods and understanding their different, they have sucessfully trained many elephants to give safari rides to tourists and the like. people so often call an elephant an elephant, africans and asian are not only different species, their different genus'! it the same as calling a deer and a cow the same thing.

oddly, and just a little point of interest here, there is a record of a hybrid asian/african elephant being born in a zoo in the 70's. he displayed a blend of characteristics of boths species, but not supprisingly died a week or so after birth.

i have read a circus in NZ has a young african cow. would'nt it be great to see her relocated to dubbo. unfortunately the bull at dubbo, congo, died a couple of years back and the breeding program has been abandoned.

Auckland Zoo elephant
28-02-2005

about a year ago there was an incident that caught news headlines around the world -- my penpal in Texas alerted me to it --
One of Aucklands elephants managed to get out of the enclosure , out of the zoo , and into the big wide world one night ......
Its too bad I wasnt a fly on the wall at the elephant complex the next morning when the keepers discovered that one of the elephants had managed to go walkabout .... needless to say there was urgent calls for police to arrive to help with any unknown situation that could arrive ......
Fortunately for all involved , the elephant was having a nice slow wander through the large parkland area called Western Springs , munching on browse as she went ( similar to Royal Park in Melbourne )
and was in no hurry to escape as far as she could ..... but the police told the zoo in NO uncertain terms that although they cordoned off a wide perimeter around the approx position of the elephant , if she wandered onto the roads , or caused any damage to property , they wouldnt hesitate to "shoot to kill" and demanded that the zoo contain the elephant ( whatever that might take ) and take her back pronto .
Even though the elephant was known to be placid , the police were not going to take any chances.
The fact that the elephant did not make a decent effort to escape ( it was not known exactly how long she had "escaped ") and was quite happy to slowly wander back to the zoo ( too damn slow as far as the police were concerned ) suggests that she was just curious , rather than planning to escape .
This is basically for Patricks information , and anyone else who has also recently joined the forum and is interesting in elephant sagas .

recent news clippings
10-03-2005

A fax was recieved at my office from our Canberra office , it had a newsclipping about exchange of elephants for koalas between zoos in Australia/Thailand .
I was not able to read it all , nor could I determine which newspaper it came from , but part of the information was so inaccurate I was surprised -- it said that the Wellington Zoo was hoping to obtain 2 elephants !!
If anyone happened to read the same article , I can definately say that they got their zoos mixed up . Wellington Zoo has no capacity for any elephants , even if they wanted them -- the zoo is at best "hilly" , at worst , steeper than Taronga Park ( and thats really saying something )

As there are no koalas in NZ ( but we do have feral wallabies ) I cannot offer any comment about the feasibility of sending some to Thailand . Despite their cute looks , the one close encounter that I have had with a koala suggests that they are like the kiwi , and have a bad temperament !

koalas for elephants....
10-03-2005

hmmmm.

swapping koalas for elephants eh? would not be at all surprised. australia is known amongst the international zoo community as being notoriously stingy with exporting their animals and as a result we have sufficiently managed to elevate the species such as the humble koala to a very much sought after and successful barganing tool.

i expect the northern subspecies of koala could do okay in thailand. they certainly (like every other tropical or sub-tropical country) have plenty of eucalyptus trees. but still, on a more personal note, having been to thailands two biggest zoos - bangkok's dusit zoo and the chang mai zoo (which has giant pandas!) - i think they having enough difficulty caring for the animals they've got!

besides, i wouldn't give anything to a country who is the distribution center for most of southeast asia's smuggled wildlife. have you heard about the orangs at safari world?

but back to elephants - i have read a fair few articles on the subject and there does seem to be a bit of innacurate reporting, especially when it comes to the zoo's involved.

i do know that a quarantine station has been built in the cocos-keeling islands for the animals and the selected 9 elephants are in pre-departure quarantine right now in thailand.

myself? i'm still dead against it. i love looking at elephants, but not in cramped city zoos. besides, the region collectively already holds at least 6 breeding-age elephants!

theres an idea, why don't they start their much publicised breeding program with the elephants they already have??!!!!

interesting article
08-04-2005

Seems the elephant debate is getting even hotter!

just read this article at:

www.theage.com.au/articles/ 2005/03/24/1111525290744.html

it talks about some of the particulars surrounding the import that i was not aware of. apparently auckland zoo has said it no longer wants to take the only bull that being imported (the plan was that auckland gets a bull and a cow), instead it only wants to keep female elephants. now the bull is planned to go to taronga, who i have heard has no bull facilities.

seems all those stupid decisions taken out by the zoo's management is backfiring big time. its a shame, id'e love to see a breeding herd of elephants in australasia.....

elephants for zoos .....
10-04-2005

I was unable to access the article that you posted , Patrick , but I have asked my contact at the Auckland Zoo to tell me what is really going on .
I informed her that we have been getting numerous conflicting reports and I wanted to know what the real story is .
This approach will be better than blasting the zoo , and then expecting a reply
Could it be possible for you to copy/paste the article ?

How much progress has been made with the idea of making cow elephants through Artificial insemination ? I suspect that this would be Auclands preferred way to breed elephants .
There is not much room left for big expansion of the elephant enclosure , unless the city grants them more land at Western Springs , which would mean less public parkspace . I would be happy about this , but alot of Aucklanders may not .

Ai
10-04-2005

yeah sorry, the article has now been removed from the age website - you will now have to purchase it from the archives.

in regards to AI in elephants, there have been numerous sucsessful births overseas (mostly in the US) with both african and asian species, but the elephant keeper at melbourne recently told me that it is very difficult and not the preffered option. apparently, elephants sperm is only viable for a mere few hours and though theoretically possible, it required very well synchronised procedures and transport. i would imagine this would be quite difficult for our region in particular with so many of the australasian cities many hours apart by plane. the flight from perth to auckland for example is further than melbourne to indonesia!

i was also told by the melbourne keeper that although one of auckland's females is suspected of being fertile, it has not yet been proven. it is up to the individual zoos to determine the reroductive health of its elephants and so far melbourne is the only zoo to have done that. the result - a barren cow and fertile bull.

one of the other delays with the elephant importation was that the zoos discovered that one of the apparently "proven breeder" cows in quarrentine in thailand was not 20 but actually 40!

would it be safe to say that the fact that the elephant-holding zoos have only just now begun to test their animals fertility is a clear sign that they have never seriously considered moving all the animals to one site?
if they had considered developing a herd from existing stock, would that have not been the first question - how many potential breeders do we have?

more thoughts on elephants etc
11-04-2005

this is getting into an area which I will admit that i know nothing about -- but
what is the procedure for determining as to whether a cow elephant is actually fertile - besides the age of the cow ? If a bull is fertile he will be showing signs of Mussht ( or whatever its called ) but if the cow doesnt display any such behaviour , it will be a little more difficult -- especially if there is no male elephant in the region , as the current case for Auckland .

I certainly agree that the zoos should send their fertile stock to the largest of the open range zoos and set up conditions that would encourage the elephants to breed . Even if only one baby elephant is born , this would be a positive thing for the zoos and the elephants alike .
If Auckland wants to back down from the breeding programme , the least they could do would be to swap the most fertile cow with another Australian
cow that isnt likely to breed .

As much as Auckland Zoo has done very well in the whole area of elephant care and husbandry ( and finding jobs for the elephants to get some exercise /relieve boredom ) I personally think that more than 2 elephants will be too much for them to cope with ( unless there is extra room and staff and resources etc )

Do you know of any zoos anywhere that have mixed enclosures that include elephants ? The closest one that I know of is the elephants/humans sharing the same pathway at Auckland/Melbourne Zoos , but this is not quite what I was meaning .

elephants sharing spaces....
11-04-2005

i think the testing proedure for elephant fertility is much more technical. in regards to melbourne sperm counts were performed on bong-su semen and mek kapah underwent internal and hormonal testing to check if she is cycling and thus determine her reproductive health. it's lab stuff, not so much visual.

i agree that if auckland does not want to house a bull, or have not (as you suggest) have room for additional animals, then they should be prepared to send their fertile cow to australia. however, i also respect that elephants create strong bonds and therefore her non-fertile companion should be expected to join her. in the wild female elephants rarely leave their maternal herd - i expect that elephant husbandry in zoo's should reflect this.

mixed species elephant ehibits? well elephants can be not the friendliest animals when it comes to sharing space with other species. they are the biggest land animal on earth and i think they know it! however i have read on the net about zoo's in germany in particular, that have had elephant species displayed alongside other animals.

one exhibit displayed african elephants with baboons. the primates had rocky areas that were inacessable to the pachyderms.

another zoo housed blackbuck antelope and deer species with a lone female asian elephant. whenever the elephant sought physical affection from one of the antelope/deer they ran away - poor thing!

i have asked both melbourne and werribee staff on so amny occasions why melbourne's elephants could not be displayed at werribee. every time i have exactly the same answer..

"well the elephants are actually asian elephants not african, so they wouldn't really fit in with the rhino and giraffe at werribee"

i have never really understood it beacause

a) they are assuming that the elephants have to be housed with the african animals, not in their own exhibit.

b) the zoo does have an asian paddock as well that indian hoofstock, why wouldn't it be assumed that they would be displayed alongside these animals?

in fact, having visited the terai of north india personally, i am supprised that a mixed-species asian exhibit has never been attempted. in australian zoo's we have all the following indian grassland animals on display at one zoo or another -

mainland asian elephant
indian rhinoceros
sambar deer
chital deer
hog deer
indian antelope (blackbuck)
nilgai antelope
asiatic (water) buffalo
banteng
blue peafowl

as well as numerous smaller species such as pocupines, cats, otter and primates that hail from this particular habitat. all present in australian zoos. i think an open range exhibit for these animals would rival any african display. as long as the area is large enough i see no reason why the elephants could not share the space - i found the elephants in india were actually a little nervous around the rhino, they obviously have a healthy respect for one another!

mixed exhibits etc
12-04-2005

My understanding is that Werribee Open Range Zoo has an Asia section as well as an African section ( but I could have got my wires crossed ) so the silly answer that the elephants at the Australian zoos are actually Asian elephants is not easily swallowed by me !
And it gets a little annoying to be treated like a totally ignorant person when we have such a keen interest in zoos etc
Quite apart from the fact that even though I dont hold a doctorate in zoology , I can still discern whether an elephant ( be it live , a picture of one , stuffed in a museum or whatever ) is an African or an Indian one -- they are not that hard to distinguish .

I accept that it would be difficult to house African elephants with other animals in the one enclosure , but it would be foolish Asian elephant/'rhino that would tangle with the other . I also accept that it wouldnt be too wise to put in pregnant or young specimans in the mixed exhibit .....

I am not sure about whether the baboons would stay in their rocky outcrops in a mixed enclosure , or would try and challenge an elephant on the flatter part of the enclosure ( they give me the impression that they can be quite stroppy primates -- again , I stand to be corrected here )

elephants on the open range...
12-04-2005

yes as i mentioned (though i was typing fast and missed a few words, making it confusing) werribee zoo does have an "asian grassland" paddock, containing at times any of the following; water buffalo, sambar deer, chital deer, indian antelope and przwalski's horses.

however, werribee seems hell-bent on focusing on african species and marketthe zoo entirely as an african-themed attraction. a melbourne keeper said there was talk amogst zoo management of having melbourne zoo exclusively asian and werribbe exclusively african - of course i can't see melbourne getting rid of its gorllias anytime soon and i think that's a bit rediculous.

what i would like to see is a more clearly defined concept between the city zoo, with its matured botanical setting that can cater better for species from rainforests and other habitats that need careful planning and design, and open-range zoos, that have the space and environment to display large herds of animals from the grasslands of the world.

i much prefer the idea of difining the zoos on they types of habitats they display, rather that different regions of the world.

but back on elephants (and the topic of this thread), whether or not the elephants and other species can share the same enclosure at the same time (and i suspect that at least some of the faster deer species might do okay if the enclosure was say as big as werribees savanna) the elephants would i imagine benifit greatly from just being with visual contact of other types of animals. i have read reports of zoo's finding that the stimuli of other animals being around often can encourage (sub)ungulates like rhino or elephants to breed as well as improving their mental condition.

we should hear within the next couple of weeks if the auckland/melbourne/taronga consortium will be successful at getting their application approved. if they do, it will open the gates for another importation as monarto zoo (finally an open range zoo!) and australia zoo are both planning new elephant exhibits as well.

13-04-2005

Hey Patrick
If you can access the Herald Sun from the 12th April there is a picture and tiny article about Perth Zoos elephants. This is what it says
"IT'S clearly a case of true love for these two elephants at Perth
Zoo. The pair haven't been coy in showing visitors their mating rituals,
which include lots of nuzzling and plenty of shared showers."

No actual mention of mating though.
Perth zoo has the most viable breeding group with two young femaels and a bull. If any zoo can breed them at the moment it is likely to be them. I hope that they will. At the moment I am very disapointed with the various zoos involved as they really should have gone about all this in a better way. It is a promotional farce at the moment and the various animal rights groups have got a lot of support, including mine.
BTW. the director of the South Australian zoos has stated in a letter to the ;paper, late last year, that Monarto will NOT be getting elephants anytime in the near future. He said that costs involved, over a million dollers per elephant per year, was too prohibitive and that zoo has other priorities
Unfortunaetly I can no longer find the article on the net now so will have to look through my print outs for it.
Jason

perth's elephants
13-04-2005

and jason, i hope they breed them too!

remember just a few years back perth zoo came very close to sending their bull to america because they didn't want to invest in the facilities to hold him!

now he's one of only two potentailly breedable bulls in australia (in fact he is one of only three in australia - i'm very glad we kept him!).

do you think the bulls would benifit from the presence of other males? i suspect that mating behaviour could be kicked in by a bit of male rivelry. in the wild bulls often form batchelor groups. i would have liked to see the zoo's build facilities for multiple cows and bulls.

perth zoo imported those 3 young elephants from malaysia in the mid-nineties. does anyone know if that caused any controversy/opposition?

i have never been to perth. can anyone tell me what the zoo/elephant enclosure there like?

14-04-2005

Check out the perth zoo website. They have a very interesting news article about the elephants. Thanks to Mark for bringing it to my attention. Sixteen year old female Permai and the sixteen year old male, Putra Mas are mating, and both are fertile - very promising!!
However the zoo won't be breeding from the fifteen year old Teduh as she has a weak skeletal system, presumablt this means that she would not be able to cope with the weight involved in matiung and bearing a calf. So that means the loss of another potential breeding female. Sad.
I haven't been to the zoo but I have seen pictures of the elephant enclosure, which looks ok to me, though probably not big enough. The zoo is going to upgrade it though. I am also glad that they didn't send youn Putra Mas away. From what the zoo says it doens't seem that he needs stimulas.
If the importation does not go ahead, can you see any point in breeding this pair? As the situation stands they are the only possible breeding pair and any young won't have any breeding partners. Even if a female is born, the only potential male would be the male at Melbourne, presuming he is still alive and fertile in 16-20 years.
Jason