Elephants for Australian Zoos

breeding at perth?
14-04-2005

yeah true regarding the lack of potential breeding partners for any perth-born offspring. however, if aucklands youngest female is still fertile (and i must mention here that if she is, they better bloody get a move on, because if mek-kapah, barren at the ripe young age of 30 is anything to go by, there's not much time left!), and the zoo's don't get their import permit approved, then i would hope that she and her older companion are immediately moved to melbourne in the hope that she might breed with bong-su (auckland do not have bull facilities). that would mean that with two breeding pairs the zoos can at least breed past the first generation.

this is a good example of how the zoo's screwed up - they wanted to import more elephants to join a breeding program that had so far been completely unsuccessful! i imagine if the zoo's had ACTUALLY TRIED to breed their elephants, then argued that their sucessful breeding program required more animals to continue, they would not have met with anywhere as much fierce opposition as they have.

i would be supprised however, given the various zoo's attitudes regarding their current elephants, if auckland gave up it's elephants to send them to melbournes much better facilities. more likely, i expect they'd try AI with bong-su's semen.

am very excited to hear about perth's elephants however...

Perth Zoo
14-04-2005

I have been to Perth Zoo a long time ago , and although it is a nice zoo , with efforts being made to house animals in reasonable enclosures , it is a smallish zoo ( my guess would be about the same acreage as Adelaide City zoo )
That was back in the America/Fremantle Cup days . They had one or two elephants back then in a better enclosure than what Auckland used to have for the elephants ( but that wouldnt have been too hard ) but it would have only been about an acre at most -- too small for long term housing of elephants .
Does that zoo take any of their elephants for wanders through the zoo , like Auckland and Melbourne ?
Too bad that there is not an open range zoo in WA . It would be an ideal place for the fertile couple ( and I also wish them the best of luck ! )

WA Open Range Zoo?
15-04-2005

No, there is no open range zoo in western australia. however there has been some talk for awhile amongst the zoo board about creating one. i remember a few months ago reading a newspaper article that talked about a certain site near perth that the zoo was looking into developing in the future. i guess they like the "sister open-range zoo" concept NSW, VIC and finally SA got into.

oh, how nice it would be for a baby elephant!

Strategic plans for our zoos
17-04-2005

I have read the strategic plans for the Perth , Melbourne , and Wellington Zoos from their respective websites .
What Patrick is being told appears to contradict the Melbourne Zoos strategic plan , so I wont comment any more on that one .

Perth Zoo admits that its space is far too small to adequately cope with larger animals , and specifically mentioned elephants as an example . It appears to be making serious initial plans to locate , design and build another zoo with more room , possibly an open range style .

Wellington has recently hired Zoo designers ( the same ones that designed Melbournes new elephant facility ) to assist Zoo management to redevelop NZs oldest ( and in parts , still the most run down ) zoo . Although Wellington Zoo is totally unsuitable for elephants , the report did refer to Auckland Zoo actually is planning to build facility for bull elephant/s .

Please note that in an earlier part of this thread , I doubted if the current elephant facility to house any extra elephants . That is purely my own thoughts , and not the official zoo plan . Auckland Zoo has the reputation for creating good facilities for its animals , and there may well be major works underway to enlarge the elephant facilities , even if they dig away half a hill or something

I must agree with Patrick that this combined zoo effort to get more elephant breeding stock has been managed somewhat poorly

18-04-2005

Here is an interesting little point. I was contacted about a year aog by a Perth company that was going to put in a tender for the job to create the new elephant exhibit. of course I wasn't able to help them but it does look like that perth is going to go ahead.
Jason

Official response re elephant issue at Auckland Zoo
21-04-2005

Dear Nigel,

Leigh has forwarded me your query in regards the elephant importation into Australasia. I hope the following points address your email:

- Auckland Zoo is part of a regional importation of elephants that has agreed on a Captive Management Plan (CMP) that increases the number of elephants held in the region and maximises the breeding potential of all elephants held.

- Auckland Zoo did plan to bring in a young male elephant along with a young female elephant with this current importation. Our strategic intention has always been to increase our elephant facilities to accommodate a bull from 2009 onwards. It was felt a young bull would not require the current facility to be altered before that time. It is now apparent that even a 4 year old bull requires a certain level of protected contact and our facility alterations would be required before 2009 (not possible budget wise). It has hence been agreed by the region that Taronga Zoo would take a young bull now (as they can provide the required facilities) and we would import a male after 2009 continuing with our planned breeding strategy.

Kind regards,
Maria

Maria Finnigan
Manager Life Sciences, Auckland Zoo
www.aucklandzoo.co.nz
Phone: 09 360 3808
Mbl: 027 2724 021

re the Auckland Zoo response
21-04-2005

My previous message refers .
I sent an email back to Maria expressing my concern at this whole debarcle with the elephants issue .
If Patrick , Jay ( or someone else from our forum ) has any issues to raise with the Auckland Zoo re the elephant issue , I suggest that you send an email to the generic Auckland Zoo email address , with the title being
" attn Maria Finnegan "

I try to keep up a good relationship with Leigh , and given the fact that some zoos are not interested in responding to our queries , I hope to keep Leigh happy despite my flood of emails .....

Can I also suggest that you avoid the adjective "bloody" , as this appears to be common use in Australia , but is still somewhat an offensive word in NZ

Good luck for anyone wanting to contact the Auckland Zoo about this .

wasted cows at auckland....
21-04-2005

well, i don't know about you guys but it does bring up some questions for me. firstly why would auckland (or taronga for that matter), wish to import young breeding age females and not a male as well? so that they can hold onto a breeding animal for a valuable 4 years (though knowing zoo planning when they say 4 it means more like 6) without actually participating in a breeding program? this is especially an important issue if the elephant cow (as reports i have read have stated) is about 20. earlier in the thread we have discussed the evidence that suggests how vital it is to breed a cow before she gets into her 30's. four years is big waste of that valuable time.

fact: auckland have not the facilities for breeding elephants. i suggest the responsible thing to do would be develop the facilities BEFORE you import more animals. auckland zoo has been partaking in an awful lot of development work lately, you'd think if breeding elephants were a priority (and i'm not saying it nessercarily should be for auckland) then you think the budget WOULD allow for it.

i personally will be quite disgusted if i see another healthy female calf go to waste on a zoo that only wants to put it on display, though i suspect auckland are hoping to go for the (finacially) easier alternative of AI.

04-05-2005

Article on news.com.au today:

Elephants headed for court

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Sim'

Technical support: please post in the Help and Feedback Forum. Alternatively, use the Contact Form, or email me directly at support@zoochat.com

Auckland Zoo
05-05-2005

As much as I think that Auckland Zoo does a lot of good things in being a good zoo ( complete with breed and release programmes that have no real benefit to the zoo itself , but alot of good for the conservation of threatened NZ species ) I have to agree with your last post , Patrick . I hope you send an email direct to Maria at the Auckland Zoo . I am posting all responses that I get from any zoo correspondence onto this forum -- I dont always agree with them , but I post the reponses so that all of you that are interested can keep up with the play from NZ zoo angle .
What I can verify is that Auckland current elephant enclosure will be slightly smaller than Melbournes elephant enclosure if/when it is eventually finished , and both those zoos have FAR bigger enclosures than the new Taronga Zoo elephant enclosure . Unfortunately I cannot go into detail , or divulge the nature of the (accurate ) sources as it could jepordise my current employment .
What annoys me is that Taronga Park will be trying to house too many elephants in a shoebox of an enclosure . It makes me think that there is a hidden agenda or two within zoo senior management . Why cant they send the elephants to Dubbo , Monarto , and Mr Crikey's zoo in Queensland ( and persuade one of the elephants to sit on Steve to deflate some of his irritating ego ?!) just jokin' , but I am sure you know what I am trying to say ...... , try AI with the Auckland Zoos elephants , and have retired elephants on display at Taronga Park ( and hopefully give them plenty of stimulation somehow ... )

zoo priorities..
06-05-2005

this is one thing that i actually respect steve irwin for - be sure that he builds the biggest elephant exhibit in the world. however, the elephants might just have to put up with him jumping into their pond (what is with the australia zoo obsession with wet khaki?!!!) and chasing them about all day.

"elephants are super intellegent and magestic animals, but their brute stregnth commands respect - don't muck with it!"

crikey, he give gives me the shits!

anyhow, all i can say is that considering i think melbourne zoos elephant enclosure is too small, i am saddend to hear that taronga and aucklands will be even more inadequate.

has anyone read the postings by membrers of the public on the taronga zoo website that supports the zoos [import] endevours? some of the comments of support actually contradict the zoos own mission statements!

i for one am sick to death of hearing zoos harp on about the importance of captive breeding programs when the breeding program itself is compromised so often by the zoo's own agenda - like ALWAYS having an animal on display. the elephant issue is at the heart of my problems with this - should they truly wish to breed elephants then they should recognise that they connot provide adequate facilities at melbourne, taronga, auckland, perth or any other small zoo.

captive breeding programs can be a wonderful tool in conservation of a species - but zoos are often not (though not always) the right place for it. i think zoo's claiming that this elephant import is going to directly benifit both the captive and wild elephants is both misleading and undermines the other realistic conservation projects that these zoo's are involved in.

the truth is asian elephants, as a species, would greatly benifit from a well- managed captive breeding program here in australasia - but i believe the sort of decisions that are going on with this recent proposed import questions the zoos priorities.

is breeding elephants really coming before simply displaying them?

not if your planning on only holding females!!!

elephant issues
16-05-2005

just found this on the net.

http://www.hsi.org.au/news_library_e..._Questions.htm

it's a series of questions the humane society international have asked the ausralian zoo consortium regarding the elephant import. whilst i strongly agree with so many of the points brought up, others i find quite rediculous.

of the "QUESTIONS ON ANIMAL WELFARE CONCERNS" the statement about europe and north america moving away from elephants in zoo's is inaccurate and misleading. yes, recently a number of zoo's have been criticised about their care of elephants and some zoo's have chosen to either temporarily or permanentlty close their exhibits, some 40 others in the US are planning elephant exhibit re-vamps and the zoo's are desperately trying to breed their elephants knowing that if they do not they will soon have none left as the population is aging.

also i believe the comment about dubbo's climate being unsuitable to be quite incorrect.

"QUESTIONS ON CONSERVATION BENEFIT"
also made the stupid analogy of the program being like taking a wombat to siberia. every australasian zoo planning on holding elephants have a climate comparable to at least the cooler habitats within the natural distribution of the asian elephant.

most of the other stuff i must admit i at least partially agree with considering the zoo's have not shown at any stage in their history that they are putting breeding before display.

i also believe that the tens apon tens of millions being used on elephant exhibits would be better devoted to wild elephant conservation or facilities that at least were adeal for elephant breeding.