Melbourne Zoo Developments » Melbourne Zoo

the baboons
12-09-2006

actually its funny you say that because i was talking to this fat old man at the red pandas who knew alot about the zoo and i thought...could this be patrick? lol. but it wasnt you.
what i wanted to say was that i was told by him, a number of volunteers and zoo friends (so its obviously well known) that instead of relocating the baboons to the old orang enclosure that the zoo is instead 'reorganising' the gorilla troop-reintroducing rigo and removing motaba and the sub-adult males and creating a second bachelor group-whowill be housed in the old orang enclosure.
whilst obviously this is an important priority (breeding rigo) i really think that the proposed bachelor group should only occupy one or two of the grottos, leaving the largest one for the baboons until either a more suitable enclosure is built for them or they are relocated to werribee. i got given some naff little comments card to fill out, and ive used the tiny space allocated to tell them what i think about the baboon enclosure.
i mean, baboons are such a socially dynamic, active animal that an exhibit of them could become a real focal point. and i think the current cage they live is terrible. obviously the zoo is providing them with heaps of enrichment, theyre breeding well and not mutilating, but if the point of zoo animals (besides conservation breeding) is to teach people something about them, than the current exhibit doesnt really meet this objective.
by using the orang space, with all that rendered concrete and steep slopes, the baboons could be provided with a functional exhibit at low cost for now. in the future, the exhibit could be enlarged for the gorillas or whatever extension to the rainforest biome is proposed for that area and baboons put elsewhere.

12-09-2006

also, when i was standing in front of the syrian bear exhibit i noticed a pair of black duck with their duckling. on friday there were 9, but by sunday there were only 5. i was wondering if the bears would be quick enouh to catch them, and as i stood there pondering, the mother duck jumped up the bank and led her babies to settle down on the sand.
this didnt go unnoticed by the male bear, who bounded across the exhibit and grabbed the slowest duckling before it could escape. if only i had a tape recorder for what the parent said to the kids...
and then there was 4

my thoughts on gorillas and baboons....
12-09-2006

a few years ago i quizzed a volunteer in the gorilla research hut about rigo being kept alone for so many years, rather than send away (he was once almost sent to singapore - lucky for him he wasn't!!!). i was told that the zoo was keen to start up a second gorilla troop and they where hoping to acquire additional females for him when the orangs moved and they had the space. rigo was apparently picked on by the females in the melbourne troop, so despite being sterile, buluman took over instead as the troop silverback (he was eventually replaced by motaba when he died). rigo, having only sired the famous mzuri, must be high priority for breeding and i have always been supprised that melbourne have hung onto him and that he wasn't moved to another zoo in our region to start a third gorilla troop. ARAZPA gorillas are part of the european breeding program, so chances are individuals are usually matched with apes overseas, but nonetheless both taronga and melbournes troop are presumably unrelated to rigo and both zoos have sent off quite a few adolescent females over the years that i would have thought would have at least been tested-out as companions for rigo first.

since betsy and yuska (the two that apparently beat up on rigo) are still prominant members of the melbourne troop, i wonder why the zoo would expect any difference in behaviour from them this time round?

also, rigo must be getting pretty old by now, and there are not really any "batchelor" gorillas in the troop at the moment - motaba's sons are both only around 5 years old.

in regards to the ape grottoes being redeveloped - as they currently are they are very unsuitable for gorillas (particuarly a troop) but very suitable for baboons. far from being a step-up from their old cage (and it is a cage) i think they would actually be very sufficient as is - even better if was asthetically re-landcaped to represent the baboons native habitat of the rocky cliffs of arid north-eastern africa and the arabian penninsular. it would be perfect for at least the medium term.

unforunately though, the baboon "troop" at melbourne is actually two separated troops and thus they will need a minimum of two of the four grottoes. this leaves just two left and even with the demolishion of the dividing wall and a fill in of the moat (with new glass fronted viewing) it may still prove a little small for a whole second troop of gorillas in the long term.

that said something like that might prove the best alternative. melbourne currently have no outdoor facilities to hold the apes if they need to do any major works on the rainforest habitat (and eventually they will - as i said in my review the trees are starting to suffer), and if they expect to hold two troops they will need at least 3 enclosures to suit this purpose. there was talk of the grottoes being redeveloped into shops but i just cant see how the zoo can continue to manage so many gorillas without them(or something to replace them).

even if they just moved one baboon troop to the grottoes - the other would benefit from the use of ALL of the baboons current cages. - but long-term they really need to move em out to werribee.

13-09-2006

Very well said pat, i reackon take the smaller troop (?) is 1 smaller?, and move them to werribee for placment in the hippo exhiibit, the two species work well together, i have read and viewed pitures of examples including elephants in germany and with hippo in bucsh gardends tampa bay florida.

13-09-2006

yeah, but of course moving baboons to werribee means building them an exhibit, which can run into high costs. the hippo exhibit is still drive-thru at the back with livestock fencing - not suitable for clever primates that can climb. why i was so keen on moving them to the melbourne ape grottoes was because they would actually be highly suitable for the baboons, whereas they are highly unsuitable for great apes, and most importantly, the zoo need not spend a cent on altering them if need be.

however if they plan on housing a second gorilla troop then the grottoes need be either demolished or substantially renovated, even if it is just for the short term. they provide very little space and there are some very steep moats that i think could raise some saftey issues should a fight break out amongst the gorillas.

as glyn said baboons actually provide highly engaging and interesting exhibits when displayed properly. the idea that intregues me the most is to build a massive rocky outcrop for them at werribee (to be viewed off a trail - not off the safari) that they could share with barbary sheep. some OS zoos have had success displaying baboons with adult ibex etc..

they could overlook a paddock of ostrich, camels, addax and oryx and fennec fox could be located near by.....

welcome to arid north africa!

15-09-2006

perfect pat, my exact idea, thts cheap and easy,

the entire hippo exhibit is avaliable to the hoofstock, there are no fences separating, therefore it is a huge mxed exhibit with hoofstock and hippos, great hay, as for my hippo/baboon idea, it was simply an idea that has progvided great success, mayb not for werribee

melbourne zoo and african ungulates
18-09-2006

hey patrick
glad to hear your common views on the babboons being exhibited in the old ape grottoes. in the long term they should really be moved out to weribee, but if as you say the baboons are two seperate troops, then one could be held off display and the gorilla troop could occupy grotto no. 2 and 3.
in the future i think that melbourne zoo should phase out african grassland species altogether, with the exception of some small mammals like meerkats, etc.
this proposal isnt based upon any specific welfare concerns i have for the zebras, giraffes, lions and hunting dogs, but simply arises from the fact that weribee is so close to the city and so fantastic, whereas western plains zoo is 6 hours drive from sydney.
i think that the relocation of the ungulates and carnovores to weribee would not only enhance the open range zoo's catch cry 'africa, out of africa' but also allow melbourne to expand its asian bioclimatic zones and possibly expand its african rainforest exhibit too.
i would like to see new south american exhibits and papua new guinea exhibits incorporated, as well as representative aussie bushland too.
i know this is a bit of a rehash of what i wrote back in february when i first went to melbourne, either way theres an exciting future ahead for victoria's zoos.


just a little bit offbeat here, but did anyone catch foreign correspondents special on the bornean ornagutan crisis last tuesday.
besides the appalling illegal destruction of the primary forest for palm oil plantations the most disturbing orang was Pony, a female who had spent twelve months tied to a bed in a brothel being forced to have sex with customers.
this is outrageous!!!i have decided this year no one in my family is getting xmas presents, the money i would have spent is instead going to the australian orangutan project coordinated by perth zoo.
i urge anyone else out there reading this to do what you can for the planet-plant treees, catch public transport, and maybe this year boycott the commercialisation of xmas by donating to a wildlife charity.

18-09-2006

hang on orangs having sex with people thts outrageous

20-09-2006

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(thats me throwing up!)

Melbourne Gorillas- latest moves.
06-12-2006

Hi. I've read this forum several times- feel I'd like to join in as I'm a gorilla fanatic. Live in the Uk but have visited Melbourne zoo(and Taronga) several times over the years. So I'm interested to know the latest on the Melbourne gorillas. The management told me about the proposed exchange of Rigo into the group in place of Motaba- who will probably go with his two sons in a 'batchelor group' in the old ape grottoes. Apparently the Melbourne female gorillas have been on contraceptives and two will be chosen to try and get offspring with Rigo- my guess this will be G.Anne/Julia or maybe Julia's daughter. BUT there could be problems about how compatible they are with Rigo and not necessarily his fault- he was 'difficult' with females when he was much younger but is so much older now he is probably much more relaxed nowadays. The poor fellow has been alone for so long, which is a very poor advert for the zoo incidentally. Why no past attempt to give him a female or two?
Anyway, these two females came from Jersey UK and neither would ever mate with the proven male Jambo (or with YK)- one reason they were sent over to Australia- so they may be very nervous of another strange male (they already knew Motaba well from their Jersey days). It will be very interesting to see if the outcome is successful or not.
Incidentally, although Rigo's son Ya Kwanza/Mzuri 'lives happily' at Jersey he hasn't actually been very successful- he only breeds with one out of the four females and has only two offspring as a result. I think he was too young when introduced in the group (he was not fullgrown) and so the older females dominated him- which persisted into his adulthood. But neither is he interested in Betsi's much younger daughter Bambuti - so maybe its to do with his handrearing as well.
Please can you post when they move the gorillas around- and which females they try to breed with Rigo?
I also remember the baboons in their old cage- I agree the Ape grotto would be a perfect/better home for them too! All the Best.

baboons/elephants.
06-12-2006

I forgot to say- there's no reason why the two seperate groups of baboons couldn't be joined into one larger one- if being introduced into a new and larger enclosure it almost certainly wouldn't be a problem. In the wild they live in troops which can number fifty- hundred or more.

How are the new elephants settling in? Have they been put with the old pair yet?

Rigo.
06-12-2006

I just read a few more posts about the Melbourne gorillas and other animals. Yes, Rigo is a superb male, one of the best...( His son Ya Kwanza at Jersey looks very similar.) I feel very strongly that he has had a bad life at Melbourne though. Its almost unheard of nowadays for a male gorilla to be kept alone for so long without either being transferred or be given company.
Interesting theory that he and Yuska came from the same wild troop so are half -siblings. Its very possible.

melbournes babboons
06-12-2006

melbourne's baboon troop are already fully integrated, and share the old enclosure with no barriers between them.
as for solitairy rigo, the shortage of suitable females in the region means that no matter what his genetic credentials are, compatability with the few choices he has is an overriding factor.

06-12-2006

tht would be in prep for the movement to werribee

gorillas/baboons.
06-12-2006

Sounds as if the(now single) baboon troop will be better of at W erribee in the long run...

As for Rigo- I know that until very recently there's always been a shortage of suitable gorilla females in Oz- but the two young females from Sydney which I think are returning to Europe could have been possible mates for him?
Anyway- hopefully he will get a chance in the Melbourne group now- hope its not too late and the stress of introduction kills him.... Genetically its not absolutely vital as he does have two grandchildren in UK(one- Mapema- is an adolescent mother-reared male so a strong chance to breed from him in future) A couple more offspring from Rigo would be good insurance though, and he will get that much- needed companionship too.