Tiger intro imminent » Adelaide Zoo

23-04-2008

Thats within the region, remember the snow leopards program is a global effort, so our region may just be increasing a certain blood line that leon represents. Leon came from germany and samara the female here at taronga came from france, so there really isn't an issue

23-04-2008

This comment I don't particularly like. Not so much the idea that we don't know what we are talking about nessecarily but the implication that we shouldn't discuss/disagree with something simply because we are not the 'priviliged' ones. By all means enlighten us and correct us if we are wrong but don't try to censor.

23-04-2008

I'm not censoring, it's just i've found throughout this forum a great distrust in our region and in the programs being run, i'm not saying you can't discuss/disagree, i support discussion, but passing judgement on the region or the programs i don't agree with, thats all.

23-04-2008

pLeona and Samra have bred, that's fine and is not the problem but considering the cost of importing animals into the region, considering how many times, ZooPro for instance has informed us of the nessicity of creating viable regional breeding programs, creating one bloodline within the first generation of breeding would only create the nessicity of constantly bringing in new blood every generation. There are three potential unrelated bloodlines in the region, this would mean that two generations could be born before the need for further importations.
The sumatran tigers are a prime example of what is likely to happen. All thye tigers in New Zealand and Australia are either descended from or mated to descendants of athe original pair from Taronga. (The recent imports at Australia zoo being the excemption) This means that every time a new generation is needed new blood needs to be brought in from Europe or North America. This could be avoided for several years with just one new male.

23-04-2008

The zoos need a lot of judgement. I love zoos, I love visiting them and for me it is the only way that I am likely to see exotic species. However - and this a big BUT - zoos or their programs should not be excempt from criticism, especially from those who are not insiders. Zoos conservation work is based on a shaky foundation. Yes they do many wonderful funding and great work but lets not kid ourselves - the number of animal species saved by zoos are small.
Zoos like all organisations need constant criticism to keep them improving themselves, otherwise they will become slack and try to get away with all sorts of things.
I am now borderline anti zoos simply because they all could do so much better. Recent discussions about bears, small cats at Melbourne and so on have shown how, for even small amounts of money could improve things for the animals.

Back to snow leopards, you still haven't shown me how decreasing the potential male founders from three to two is a positive thing.

24-04-2008

zooworker, you mentioned earlier in this thread that a male snow leopard had arrived at Adelaide from Germany. Do you know when he arrived?

24-04-2008

Jay, you might be interested to know that of the seven males in the region, two are considered to be post-reproductive, one is infertile, and one has never bred, and is also considered post-reproductive.

There are a couple of potentially geneticly-transmitted disease issues with this species, and the decision has been made not to continue to breed from animals known to carry and therefore pass on, these diseases. A healthy popualtion of disease-free animals is better than the alternative, I think you'd agree?

Consequently, only one pairing has been recomended for the region this year (at Melbourne Zoo) and all other institutions holding snow leopards have been asked to prevent all other pairings.

The import of additional, unrelated, disease-free animals would be ideal, but as I am sure you would realise, the popoulation overseas is small, some are related to the animals we already hold, some carry the same diseases we have here, and some zoos just don't want to give them up. Importing new animals is not an easy thing, and since the species is managed internationally, we are at the beck and call of the international studbook keeper.

Things are not always as simple as they might seem, I'm afraid.

24-04-2008

zooworker was referring to the sumatran tigers, not snow leopards.

24-04-2008

ZooPro, this is what I wanted to hear. A logical, clear reason. Does this mean that the Mogo animals carry these genetic diseases? re the costs and difficulties of bringing in animals, your explanation was exactly what I was to say. Better to create variability in the first place then have to bring in more and more animals. I realise that non zoo people like myself are not aware of everything that is involved in the decisions made it's just that I object to being told not to raise questions and 'trust' the experts.
So are new male snow leopards at Taronga and Adelaide? Or was he talking about tigers?

24-04-2008

Hi Jay. There are no snow leopards at Adelaide, and none have arrived at Taronga in a long time. The newest tigers to come into the country are three youngsters at Australia Zoo, that came from Indonesia.

24-04-2008

kelvin, when asked, several posts ago, zooworker said:

That seems pretty definitive (in zooworkers mind) to me???

24-04-2008

Not necessarily. Several of the snow leopards at Mogo are considered to be post reproductive, or have never produced young.

All zoos in the region with snow leopard have been asked to have their animals tested, but I'm not aware of any results yet.

24-04-2008

to ZooPro

Zooworker responded to my comment with this:

im just a zoo enthusiast but im pretty sure there are no snow leopards at adelaide as you mentioned,


According to Taronga ZooNooz (Dec 2007):
The two Sumatran Tigers currently at Taronga are a mother and daughter ... so there is clearly not going to be any breeding at Taronga without some tiger movement! Indeed, the mother is scheduled to transfer to the Adelaide Zoo late in 2007 to be paired with a male that has recently arrived from Germany. And the son of Adelaide's German tiger currently resides at the Western Plains Zoo - he will be brought down to Taronga to pair up with the daughter.

25-04-2008

ok to summaris yeh....
leon is a male snow leopard who was imported from Europe and produced two cubs at taronga zoo.
he has been transferred to melbourne zoo to be paired with an imported female there.
Assiqua, the mother of taronga's most recent tiger cubs has been transferred to Adelaide Zoo to breed with the male there.
in return, an Adelaide bred male will breed with Assiqua's daughter in sydney.
make sense???

05-05-2008

I can't believe this thread got so complicated from such a simple start? Where did the snow leopard stuff come from?

At a recent members meeting I learnt the following:

The Tigers have been together but no matings occurred. many positive signs seen from Assiqua and Tuan. Waiting on Assiqua's next season.