Unnecessary Handrearing

Unnecessary Handrearing
07-09-2007

(or.....DON'T GET ME STARTED! )

We all know that there are occasions when it is necessary to handrear baby animals, when their mothers can't or won't look after them, but there's a growing tendency to take animals from their mothers too young, just for our convenience, and to the disadvantage of the animals.

The best known example of this are the notorious "puppy mills " which churn out dogs for pet shops, all taken from their mothers at a too-early age so that they are tiny and cute.

Another good example is the pet parrot trade, where baby parrots are yanked too early and hand reared. It creates great pets, cute little guys who are totally screwed up. (They think they are human.)

You would think reputable zoos, with their concern for the welfare of their animals, would be above that kind of action. Not so.....

A couple of years back, the social pages of a Sydney newspaper included photos of some rich kids at a private eastern suburbs party cuddling three tiger cubs.

These cubs had been bred at Mogo zoo on the NSW south coast to be sent to Steve Irwin's Australia zoo.

The cubs at that stage were only three weeks old, an age when they should still have been with their mum. Instead, they had been yanked early and were now being handed from child to child for photo opportunities.

I wrote a letter to the newspaper, which was published, deploring the situation and pointing out that the whole thing seemed to have more to do with showbiz than genuine conservation.

A week later a reply to my criticism was published, written by some mob called Australian Animal Conservationists (a title designed not to give too much information away, but who are apparently a support group for Mogo zoo.)

I was told that the cubs had been removed from their mother "under appropriate veterinary supervision," as if that made it all right .(It doesn't!)
I was told that the cubs were intended for an "interactive display at Australia zoo" and that the cubs therefore needed to be used to humans.
("Interactive display" I assume means handled a lot. What is it with Queensland animal parks? they always seem to want to handle their tigers like dogs.)

Apparently the rich kids party paid Mogo $10,000, as the letter finished,"..... the idea of using the tiger cubs as a photo opportunity to raise a quick $10,000 should be commended, not criticised."

Anyone got any opinions of all this?

07-09-2007

we actually had a thread on hand-rearing tigers specifically not so long ago ara. you should check it out for it pretty much states where everyones opinions lie.

regardless of how anyone feels about it i think you have to remember this. dogs, cats and as you mention, parrots all make great pets BECAUSE we hand rear them. do you have a dog or a cat? becuse chances are it was removed "prematurely" from its mother (i suspect you might not, otherwise you may not have written this).

the fact is with domestic pets we do it and we do it for good reason. in the end the animal, in substituting its owners for family, has a less stressful and happier life with greater opportunity. the parrot can go outside on its owners shoulder and is allowed to fly outside its cage. the dog is better trained and allowed off the lead at the park an the cat comes down off the roof for more than just a meal.

i think thats a pretty obvious reality, and in taking a position against this, its opening up a bit of a pandoras box.....

removing tiger cubs so they can be habituated with humans instantly draws a cringe from most of us (myslef included), yet i think you have to ask yourself this:

is it any different from what we do with cats and dogs? in otherwords, is it any less painful for a domestic animal to be separated from its dependant offspring than it is for a non-domestic one?

and secondly,

do the tigers at dreamworld or australia zoo have a more enriching life than of those at taronga zoo?

07-09-2007

it does piss me off when you see tiny animals, usually big cats like lions and tigers, taken from their parents at such a young age just so that they become use to humans and act less like the huge preditors that they are.

There a case where mother animals who pine for ages when their offspring die. there was one story abot a bengal tiger whos babies died and she became so deprrsed that she stopped eating and they had to substute piglets for tiges cubs to get her mood back up. this may seem far removed from just taking live young but im sure that the effect this has on the mental health of both mother and young is probably quite servere.

DOnt get me wrong im not totally against hand rearing under certain conditions. like i fully believe that hand rearing Knut was a good idea. its better to have a slightly confused but genetically viable polar bear than no polar bear at all but hand rasing just for publicity is stupid and unnesaccary.

07-09-2007

anyone here drink milk?

07-09-2007

no im lactose Intolerant

07-09-2007

lucky you. otherwise i'de tell you a few things about the dairy industry...

07-09-2007

That's a really good point about the dairy industry and I think you should make it. It was enough to make me stop consuming dairy, more people should know about this.

07-09-2007

It can also lead to a (very long) lifetime of misery for the Parrot. All its social and sexual instincts are directed to the human 'mate' who cannot be with it permanently- as a feathered partner would. This leads to the attention seeking behaviour- screeching, feather plucking and other stress-related behaviours which often results in the owner being unable to cope and passing the bird on to a new home- and then another- and another etc..

Non-handraised parrots make very poor pets as we know, but it saves them too from a life of misery and frustration.

07-09-2007

what we need is some sort of base line or half way point. if only there was a way to leave animals with their mothers for long enough for them to be recognise there own sepecies and learn how to act naturaly whilst also having enough human contact for them to be the great companions or pr animals like dream worlds tigers and house hold pets.

this sort of thing is being done to a small etent at places like Taronga were they 'play' with the big cat cubs whilst their still yound to try and remove that fear of humans so that they are more comfortable when their older. but of couse this isnt going to work with parrots or cats and dogs because ou dont want a pet who is only not afraid of you but one you can connect with and who enjoys yur company.

so untill somoe finds some wonderfull new way of doing this people have to make the choice to handraise their pets baised on their own personal values and ideas.

07-09-2007

To digress from the ethics of handraising Big Cats etc. As far as I know, a puppy (dog) removed from its mother at the normal age of 8-9 weeks old, or even much later on, will still grow up to be a perfectly normal and well socialised and happy domestic pet. I don't know of any advantages in taking a puppy from its mother at any earlier age. The disadvantage of earlier removal is the puppy hasn't socialised properly with its litter mates and mother, so it may have problems socialising with other dogs in later life. Many generations of domestic breeding have programmed dogs to live successfully with humans, without the need to deliberately 'humanise' them in any way.


One of my dogs was five months old when I got it- she had lived with some of her littermates up until that age and with only mininum human contact,- yet she adapted perfectly to life with an 'owner' and living in a house, from DAY ONE....

11-09-2007

What is your point about the dairy industry?
Love Milk... especially chocolate... lol and also have a few Limousin/jersey cross cows we got from a mates dairy down the road... they were taken at just one day old... our first calf we raised has had two since and they are both healthy calves, we did have a few problems with the first one but eventually got him drinking from mum. Now we have a cow that produces for us and is happy to come up to us and let us milk her. no prblem there that I can see... this wouldn't have happened if she wasn't pulled from mum. the only abnormal thing about our first cow is that she drinks from herself sometimes.

11-09-2007

my point? pretty much just that jarkari. the dairy industry removes calves from their mothers to be able to keep the milk for ourselves...

hand rearing tigers
02-10-2007

It seems the emotive thought of a tiger being raised by humans instead of their natural mother is a problem for some of us. The benefits though for the life of an animal living in a captive world far outweigh the short term issues of the mother being separated.

At some point in time virtually every zoo feline will need to be removed from contact with their mother. At an earlier age (a few weeks) the stress caused to the cubs is virtually nil and the mother may be distressed for a few minutes to a couple of hours. It needs to be done correctly though.

I personnally know of tigers separated at 18 months in which the mother was a mess for weeks and the cubs for even longer. At this stage of development the bond is much stronger with the cubs and visa versa.

When cubs are pulled at a few weeks typically the female will come back into heat within a few days to weeks.

The benefits to cubs hand reared in an interactive program are that they receive far greater enrichment because of a larger range of activities that can be established for them.

They are less stressed by being in a human world. Moving between institutions is a much easier process.

Medical treatments are far easier and less stressful to perform.

These animals have a far greater abiltity to generate funds for in-situ conservation. Dreamworld and Australia zoo are among the leading contributers to conservation. In fact Dreamworld has sent over the past ten years almost 850,000 to support projects in the wild.

I see very few downsides to hand rearing and it really seems to be an issue of emotion versus logic, facts, and the well-being of the animals.

03-10-2007

i agree!

i think logically, there really isn't much of a counter-argument here.

10-10-2007

So what we are really creating is two separate "classes" of tigers, a "pure" class for conservation breeding and a tame "entertainment" class for circuses and their up-to-date cousins the amusement parks.