Panda news » Adventure World

08-01-2007

I think one of the saddest aspects of this story is how a large mammal, belonging to a charismatic group can quietly slip into oblivion and I wouldn't have known if not for you Pat. I pride myself on being a greenie, a tree hugger. I read conservation and science mags such as Wildlife Australia, New Scientist, National Geographic etc, search the internet, I belong to a couple of green groups and I still wouldn't have known. Where does that leave people who are less obsessive about it than me?

pandas & dolphins.
08-01-2007

In the case of twins -the switching method is fine and allows both cubs to be part-reared by mum- but then, like the single cubs, they all seem to get removed long before normal at about four months old (even with twins one or even both cubs could stay with her after the early stages).

I do think this early removal is very unnatural, for both the mothers and their cubs. Few people consider this though... they just think how productive the pandas have been. On San Diego's website there were hundreds of responses to the press pictures of sixteen Chinese baby Pandas in a nursery last year-they looked just like cuddly toys in a toyshop and all the responses were of the- Amazing/how cute/aaaw/ aren't they wonderful nature-just ONE person(not me...)queried -why are they being taken away so early?

San Diego understandably make no comment but THEIR cubs stay with the mother until almost full grown(18 months or more). Remember Chinese don't have a very good record regarding treatment of animals. Only a decade ago the Panda breeding centres at Wolong/Chengdu were known to be very basic with most of the Pandas living in barren concrete cells....

Yangtse dolphin- had one big problem- no cuddle factor like Pandas, so ignored by scientists and the world alike until it was too late.

Pat- you should be commended on trying to rally support for its situation, at least you acted....

yangtze dolphins
08-01-2007

its just absolutely bizzare jason, i dont get it. not for a second - everyone knew that there was potentially just a few tens of individuals left and they knew that every year that number appeared to drop by another 10 or so - yet the kept scheduling surveys next year or the meetings to discuss the survey in six months time.... did anyone realise that going on current trend there would not be population of ten animals next year? i am horified and disgusted to be honest and its these sorts of situations that gives me the shits with conservation-talkers. do something for a bloody change. even if they had caught the lot and shipped them to bloody sea world orlando they would have had a better chance!

ever read gerald durrell books? hes a drunk englishman who traveled the world in the 70's and 80's catching anthropomophised animals and patronising natives. i'm somewhat ashamed to say it makes for a very simple, yet fun read. however he writes extensively about his proactive method of conservation beliefs. while hypocritical and times (since very often animals died as a direct result of his doings) he did pioneer the concept of actually breeding endangered species in zoos (from what i can gather anyway) nd thus jersey zoo was born - a zoo that has certainly done its part in saving many an obscure liitle creature from oblivion.

whilst he probably would have no doubt drowned a few during capture and lost a few more on a long sea-voyege back to the channel islands a littl epart of me wished gerald durrell or someone with the same attitude (okay maybe someone who took a little more care!) visited the yangtze...

Qui Qui
08-01-2007

I should add I agree that Dolphins generally ARE very charismatic- but maybe a blind species living in a muddy freshwater river doesn't live up to the popular conception of dolphins. If animals have emotions Qui Qui the captive dolphin must have been one of the saddest animals on the planet.

08-01-2007

sure the yangtze dolphins might not have been the cutest dolphins in the world, but it wouldn't much have mattered since nobody ever knew they existed anyway. compared to the indus/ganges species the yangtzes had drawcard potential - they looked closer to bottlenose than their serated-fanged cousins crusing the sewage and carcass ridde rivers of the indian subcontinent!

ever seen a bilby? not that cute if you ask me. but i hear what your saying, and yes poor qi qi.....

durrell.
08-01-2007

Patrick- your right , Gerald Durrell started off as a gung-ho animal collector in West Africa. As you say, his methods were fairly primitive back then but admittedly so were everybody elses too. Then he wrote those funny books and started Jersey Zoo and everyone knows the rest of the story.

Jersey have certainly contributed a lot to conservation since. Perhaps though Durrell's best innovation was the keeper-training facility he set up, training staff worldwide, in how to care for animals in captivity, particularly in poorer countries. I think this was very innovative and has probably helped the cause of conservation/ breeding animals in captivity as much, perhaps even more than Jersey's own captive breeding projects themselves.

08-01-2007

Absolutely Grantsmb!

There are quite a number of keepers and curators in this region who have been to the Jersey Summer School over the years, and each of them comes back much better off for the experience. It's a very rewarding experience for keepers who have only worked in Australian or New Zealand zoos to work in zoos in other regions, and doing the summer school adds even further to this. It's a valuable contribution to improving husbandry standards in zoos across the globe.

08-01-2007

i love that he gave a damn about an obscure parrot from the indian ocean, or a small bat, a rat, a rabbit from mexico or a monkey from africa nobody had ever heard of.

i could go on about durrell or dolphin all day, but in the case of the latter - i already started a thread for that....

so back to panda bears i guess, lucky for them everyone loves pandas....

08-01-2007

Patrick- yes I've seen a bilby(or film of one- no, its both...) So bizarre that it looks as if it comes from outer space, so is instantly memorable. That didn't help it become almost exterminated by cats/foxes though before the conservationists stepped in.

I think Yangtse River Dolphin's problem was where it lived(China). All countries have different levels and speeds at which they work, including in their approach, or lack of, to conservation issues.

In Brazil, the Spix Macaw was exterminated in the wild by illegal/over collection for the Pet Trade, yet the several captive birds in the Sao Paolo zoo continued to languish, even after they started a 'Spix Macaw recovery programme'. Several YEARS later, and despite being the focus of international attention and vetinary/avicultural assistance, these macaws in the zoo still had not even been sexed! (They may have been by now...)

08-01-2007

oh grant i know of the spix's macaw!!!!

and theres a whole host of prick private owners around the globe who wont give their birds up either!! everyones pretty much "loan me your bird for breeding" and their like "no you loan me yours" and then "no you loan me yours" and then nobody breeds them for their own selfish little reasons.

virtunally none left in the world and yet theres one in some fat canadians kitchen and another in some rich arabs private zoo....

gosh i'm positive tonight!!!

Spix Macaw.
08-01-2007

no no no Patrick- all the squabbling over Spix Macaws is now history- well supposed to be, but there are still some in Germany' in private ownership' where no-one knows anything about them....

The main lot that were in Switzerland (Messner's birds), and ALL those formerly belonging to and successfully bred by the bird dealer (Dios) in the Philippines are now in the hands of the Arabian sheik- he has about FIFTY now and as bred about TWELVE. At least at this breeding centre they have ABSOLUTELY top-quality care, vetinerary attention etc and I think he could single-handedly now save this species.

The one found living in a cage in a suburban house in North America is called 'Elvis'- he was sent back to Brazil and provided with a female- though he is pretty ancient they still hope he might breed.(He was one of a pair originaly smuggled to England in the 1970's, and later they were sold to someone in USA).

Population is now -I believe - pretty much as follows;(ALL captive)

Arabian Sheik; 50 + birds including about 8-12 bred by there.
Loro Parc, Tenerife- 4 (includes one bred by them) in 2 pairs.
Germany-? unknown number(not many)
Brazil/Sao Paolo Zoo- about 7 in total.

Sheik has a website- el Adeebra(?) breeding centre which carries news of Spix hatchings etc. Loro Parc has one too.

08-01-2007

awesome news then grant - got links?

08-01-2007

no but i'll have a look later... pretty sure this is latest news though. There are pictures of several of the baby handraised Spix macaw chicks from hatching to fledging- unlike with the Pandas its obviously crucial they artificially icubate/hatch/rear as many chicks as possible while numbers so low(less than a hundred birds all told) Later they can afford to risk letting the parents rear their own young but its quite often accident-prone(trampled eggs, neglected chicks) so is very risky with such extremely low numbers.

08-01-2007

Patrick. For news on Spix, look on the following;(just type in names)

Al Wabra Wildlife Preservation - this is 'the Sheik's collection'(50+ Spix)
Loro Parc Fudacion - Loro Parc's (Tenerife) Parrot collection & news.
Blue Macaws Homepage. Has news and 'pix on Spix', also Hyacinth, Lears macaws etc.
Much more difficult to get any updated news on the few(7/9) birds in Brazil unless its mentioned on these sites.

red tape.
09-01-2007

Just been re-reading Patrick's posts on the demise of the Yangtse Dolphin. His comments about 'internal bickerings' among the governments/scientists/conservationists ring extraordinarily true. There never seems any sense of urgency... This is exactly what happened with the Spix Macaws too- as well as the possessiveness of the private owners who wouldn't share their birds. They couldn't even produce a studbook because of the politics. Try and read the Spix Macaw book if you haven't done so already, some of the prevarication and lack of action (like failing to get the birds at Sao Paolo zoo sexed for years) is beyond belief. Even the official Recovery Programme was abandoned because of non-cooperation and disagreements and I'm not sure its been restarted to this day...

Zoos have also been guilty of allowing this sort of red tape to prevent action.e.g transfers or breeding loans taking place etc in the past. Nowadays EEP's, SSP's and other comittees effectively oversee transfers/ breeding. Its also largely why John Aspinall was so successful with the animals in his two UK zoos- he had enough of each species for breeding on his own, only liased with other zoos on his own terms etc. so wasn't hindered by conventional practises or thinking of the time.