The eating of meat - The Vegetarian discussion

17-01-2008

He must be hacked off...

Everytime we get bit by an offender there is a stand down period for "intimacy", that includes kissing + other things, out of fear of Hepatitis (sp?)...

I never actually checked into this though just done what I've been told...

17-01-2008

my opinon is, putting aside the ethics of animal welfare, that the planet and human health would be much better off if we all ate less meat.
if Western society reduced the proportion of meat it consumes the ammount of net energy used in producing it, as well as the methane produced and a myriad of other ecological impacts would be lessened.
the world could actually support, viably, a much larger human population if agriculture shifted more to vegetarian production. i respect vegetarians choices as much as that of vegans, and to an extent agree with their stance, particularly when they adopt an ecological perspective. on the other hand, if meat consumers chose to eat less meat and perhaps chose organic meat, free range eggs and fish from sustainably managed sources then obviously their impact is lessened.

17-01-2008

hmmm ok, interesting. remember that ashley-h don't eat police officers cause you don't know where they have been. or any people for that matter... dirty dirty beasts

17-01-2008

@ glyn: It makes sense because most of the animals we eat are herbivores...

It stands to reason if we ate the food we feed them directly it would be more economical...

17-01-2008

I do agree Glyn that Australian do eat too much meat, I said earlier we were designed to eat meat, but not everyday. We were also designed to eat vegetables and fruits. it's a matter of balance. Western Society does eat too much meat. I love meat, steack, sausages, everything (except for organs) I also have family that are vegetarians, my cousin and I used to give blood together and she was always being knocked back for having iron levels too low. I think we need to find a happy medium. And for you vegetarians, what would you eat if you were stuck out in the bush and didn't know what was poisonous or not, would you rather starve then shoot a roo?

17-01-2008

We would not be able to survive eating what we feed our livestock... Jarkari and all people plus stock feed = dead humanity
It is only because of supplements and vitamins and minerals in a tin or pumped into our foods that we are able to survive on vegan diets

17-01-2008

jarkari. that example above is a bit stupid. could we possible replace the gun with a guide to indigenous plant foods? lol. i know i know, silly of me. just about every time ive been stuck in the bush Ive always had a gun but forgetten my guide. its for this reason I choose to eat meat, because when ever that happens I hate the ethical debate i have to have between shooting a roo and a wattle seed damper. does this post make any sense? no. exactly. jokes jokes jokes

17-01-2008

Hmmm. yes I have also confused myself. . . long day, but well I always carry a knife, personally I think if you don't take a knife at the very least then your stupid. I never go camping without a tomahawk, machete knife and rifle, granted many bushwalkers have no need for a rifle but hey. gotta think ahead, what if you come accross a murderer. . . How many people do you think would know how to make that damper, I'd be ctahcing fish and killin bunnies before questioning the blue berry or the red one. especially if I didn't know what I was doing. Luckily for me I don't have this problem but it's a matter of cenvenience and more importantly, in the modern world - health!

17-01-2008

Jarkari, I actually said that I find the idea of eating any meat sick, not that I think everyone should stop doing it. You proved my point about meat eaters with the thing about "humans are designed to eat meat" etc. I don't care if someone wants to eat it, I just won't do it myself as I find the idea of it pretty disusting.

17-01-2008

Of course this is just my personal opinion, I grew up on a farm and used to help dad slaughter the sheep which we'd eat (it was often the most affordabel option for us at the time and I used to love playing with the eyeballs) So, as I expect some will have a go at me for it, my opinion is my opinion adn it's that waybecause that's how I was raised, killing something to eat it was never a big issue and often would be the only way we'd have been able to eat. So now, I am still a proud meat eater and my kids will probably have the same experiences as me. . I have a photo in my phone of my nephew holding a sheeps head up to drain the blood shortly after we slit it's throat, somthing most would find sick, is the norm for us. I don't know how people can afford to be vegans or vegetarians anyway.

17-01-2008

ashley-h, fair enough, but what I probably should of said is in my time I've come accross the extreme vegos especially those damn PETA tools and their mulesing campaigns (i know it's not ideal but it is necessary) I have no problem with vegetarians until they start complaining or getting all worked up over something making something that has happened for millions of years into a big issue all of a sudden, If this makes little sense it is late and I am tired

17-01-2008

TBH I don't support what PETA do really, as I don't agree with shoving what you beleive yourself down other peoples throats. It's quite easy to afford not eating meat too, you just don't by it

18-01-2008

@Pygathrix: Your wish shall be granted-here's the answer, yet it's not the harsh and vain one You seemed to try to provoke:
1. The destruction/ non- or less sustainable use of rainforests or other landscapes isn't a result of one cause; it's multiple factors combined. This variability is important to keep in mind when talking about this subject and asking for the "truth". Due to this multifactorial cause, the shift to a less meat-orientated nutrition among the consumers would mean a shift torwards other products (as 6 billion people want their hunger to be satisfied)-which would consequently increase the need of producing these products. And as products generally don't pop up by themselves, this would lead to the destruction and industrial use of the land, just not for meat, but for something else, as the numbers of the consumers and their need to eat exists, with or without meat consumption. Simplified: if the farmers can't grow beef on the former rainforest, he will turn to something else-f.e. soy beans, pineapples, bananas... The result, the destruction of the natural habitat, is pretty much the same-or even worse. Does that now sound logical to You?
One should not draw the incorrect conclusion that this is an excuse for defeatism, or "nihilism"; instead, it should make You think more deeply how this sweeping vicious circle could be avoided, before falling prematurely for an only at first sight promising option. And the demand that people should eat less is a very friendly one, yet most likely impossible to accomplish: people want to eat, and satisfying their appetite is one of the strongest natural drives humans have. I'm honest enough to say that if I'm really hungry or thirsty, I frankly don't care about the rainforest. Do You @all?

2. Your 4 year-old list (honestly, I'm always suspicious of such lists...) still indicates that the majority of the populations of these countries isn't obese; so is it just the obese members of these societies that are responsible for this calamity? Before You flare up about this obvious thick-wittedness of mine, let me pacify You: I understood Your bloomy paraphrase right from the start; yet I wanted to show that a) the ever-growing industrial and consumptive hunger is no longer limited to the western countries, especially not due to China & India and b) this paraphrase, "fat b." has been so excessively used by various political parties that it's only result on me is one of cynical nature.
Japan btw. is a great example of a sudden increase of obesity in the last years-among others, due to a change of eating. Of course not every Japanese reaches the dimensions of Sumo wrestlers-but neither are the driving forces behind greedy & destructive international wheeling and dealing fat people; most often, the only fat or rather "phat" thing about them is their bank accounts and the limousines they use...

BTW: lederhosen? Sorry to contradict again: like I said before, I'm not a German; and it's awkward that Your stereotype of Germans just consist of such incorrect completely outdated assumptions. The percentage of Japanese being Sumo wrestlers is probably way, way higher than that of Germans or German-speaker wearing "lederhosen" and listening to brass band. Actually, it's mainly the tourists at the German Oktoberfests that wear "lederhosen"-or love the sound of an "oompah band" (not for soccer qualifying matches, though...). And as I can remember, there are quite a bunch of Brits among them loudly enjoying those folklore activities, especially the beer and the neck lines of the cute German girls' dirndl...
3. Thanks for honouring me with the omnipotence in terms of giving "permissions". In the case of NZ Jeremy, however, it was just a acknowledgement of his idea of consumption from my side, even if I don't share his opinion here.
Nevertheless, feel free to follow my "permission" a) to travel to Germany (or some of the other German-speaking countries mainland Europe has to offer) to find out that there's more about these countries than outdated stereotypes and b) not feel personally offended by posts if they contradict Your opinion.
I'm neither interested in showing off or engaging in sexual display patterns to attract females ( this forum isn't the best place for the latter, anyway...); I'm just mildly alluding to certain inconsistencies and beg to differ if appropriate.
@Jarkari: Thanks for the affirmation.
@ashley-h, I have read and heard many times when vegans & veggies used the term "meat eater" or " meat devourer" to describe people disagreeing with their ideas-and I think I wasn't the only one who somehow received the impression that this was not meant jokingly...
@NZ Jeremy: thanks for the soy product offer-but I grew up in an area full of milk farms, studied a bit about milk science (indeed, something like this does exist) and can't resist the taste of calcium-rich milk and milk products. Additionally, I'm suspicious about the all too positive recent marketing of soy products, espcially in terms of phytoestrogen effects.

18-01-2008

By sayin "meat eater" I was just saying he was a freind who eats meat... You're either a meat eater or you're not, and I would use that term if I wasn't a vegetarian...

18-01-2008

@ashley-h: For me, "meat-eater" is a synonym for "carnivore". Therefore, using this term as a differentiation or sometimes discrimination isn't correct. Unlike real "meat-eaters" like cats, I don't eat just (!) meat-I eat different foods, may they be animal products or not; therefore, like it was mentioned before, the term "omnivore" would be, if at all such labelling is used, more appropriate. Similarily, a vegetarian doesn't only eat just plants, but also consumes animal products-sometimes even unknowingly (cakes, cough lollies etc.)