bengal tigers still at the zoo » Chester Zoo

16-08-2008

There is no such thing as 'purest'... they're either purebred or they're not!! No Uk White tigers are pure anymore- the only ones that ever were, were from Bristol's stock.

I really would like to see some zoo. somewhere. keeping purebred normal-coloured Indian tigers again, but it seems India won't allow them out.

16-08-2008

I agree with you on that they are either Pure-bred or not but we all know what West Midlands is like for believing its own PR.Case point been its pure West African Leopard which is a Hybrid of god only knows what sub-species of Leopard.

16-08-2008

Well, if it makes them feel good that's okay except that its a pity as people will believe everything they are told...

17-08-2008

Given that all white tigers in the UK would stem from the 'breeding programs' in the US, one could imply that no white tiger would be purely Bengal as Amur genes were introduced to make individuals bigger (and more impressive) for the shows.

Even normal-coloured Bengals in the UK must be considered suspect. An female individual from Twycross was sent back to India (some time ago, maybe 70s), released and actually bred. Researchers noticed that subsequent generations of tigers from this national park were statistically larger then neighbouring populations. Apparently Amur genes were present in the Twycross female, but at the time they were unable to test for it.

Again I would stress that the UK does not have suitable holding spaces to house breeding Sumatrans, Amurs and a display group of generic zoo tigers. The breeding moratorium on Amurs should not mean that collections suddenly dip out on their responsibility to maintain a population in captivity. For most members of the public, a tiger is a large striped cat. They will not pay extra money at the gate to see an Indo-Chinese, Malayan, South Chinese or for that matter Caspian, Balinese or Javan tiger! I would suspect that the majority of people on this forum would be hard-pressed to tell them apart, except for size.

17-08-2008

I don't think the motivation for any collection to keep pure tiger subspecies should be gate revenue. There is a need for indo-chinese and malayan tiger ex situ management for the sake of maintaining reserves of this species, with the malayan represented in some European collections. I don't think it matters whether a zoo decides to join the Amur tiger EEP to act as a holding for non-breeding animals, or works to bring Malayan tigers into their collection, the point is that they are taking seriously their ability to contribute to captive tiger management. I wouldn't think it for the benefit of the public, let alone the zoo enthusiasts among them, regardless of how keen their subspecific radar might be...

Is there are shortage of space for Amur and Sumatran tigers within the UK and europe? Chester, Howlettts and the Kent Big Cat foundation have all added Sumatran tigers in the last few years. Longleat has switched to Amurs in the last couple of years and Dublin added them alongside the existing sumatrans. Has the recent increase in African lion births in UK safari parks been due to a demand for African lions by zoos, or was it unplanned and put pressure on collections to rehouse their cubs? Someone else mentioned there aren't as many asiatic lions available to collections that would otherwise opt for them, would this be connected to it?

What I get from this, and other threads, is that West Midland Safari Park is causing themselves and now possibly Chester a slight issue through the unethical breeding of mutation cats at levels not seen elsewhere in this country for some time. I can only assume it is extremely profitable for the park to do so. Meanwhile, far from ideal enclosure rotation has to happen at Chester.

17-08-2008

Well said Johnstoni about the rotation of the Tigers at Chester,wouldn`t mind but when i was told my a senior member of staff at Chester that West Midlands would take them back when Chester got Sumatrans,i said to him that they would not have the space to take them back looks like the experts were wrong and the zoo nerd was right.

17-08-2008

AFAIK there are NO pure Indian(Bengal) tigers- either white or normal anywhere outside India nowadays.

Probably the last to enter the UK were the 'Rewa-bred' white tiger pair which Bristol obtained in the 1960's, the subsequent pure offspring from them, and a normal tigress(which was never bred from) they obtained from the same Indian source. Sadly there are no purebred descendants from these among British zoo tigers today.

'Tara' the tigress returned from Twycross to India was an unlucky mistake which couldn't happen nowadays.

19-08-2008

I would hazard a guess that there is probably more of a problem of a shortage of surplus pure-bred Sumatran and Amur tigers, such as with the Asian lions. As happens, genetically over-represented lines are halted from breeding, but then there is difficulty in acquiring unrelated lines. I believe that this has been the main sticking point with the Amurs.

I'm not sure the recent breeding of African lions has been due to a demand (although numerous collections seem to be forming display prides), but due to unregulated breeding. What happens to these excess cubs - who knows. I cannot imagine that West Midlands will continue to breed unregulated without some sort of plan. Then again the plan to take back the Chester Bengals has been a 'roaring' success.

19-08-2008

I just mentioned the lion breeding because there seemed to be a sustained period of no African cubs for about 10 years, until maybe four or five years ago, when all the safari parks seemed to be breeding them again in large numbers.

19-08-2008

Correct, in the last couple of years most of the SP websites have featured new litters of Lion cubs quite frequently. Maybe they decide periodically that they need to rejuvenate their lion populations a bit, and just coincidental that they've all been doing it at about the same time.

19-08-2008

Or is it just that they have realised baby animals bring visitors through the gates.

19-08-2008

Combination of both, Big cats are a big crowd puller and Big cat babies draw even more through the gate.

20-08-2008

I think they realised that back in the 1960s. With notable exceptions (dartmoor wildife park's previous owner for one), my point was that even the safari parks all seemed to stock for most of the 90s and into the early 2000s, but that the last 5 years seems to have been a minor population explosion of African lions. Even the precious Barbary lions at Port Lympne were on contraceptives for most of the 90s. I just wondered if there was any reason for the seachange..

26-08-2008

The Bengal Tigers are supposed to be going before the end of the month but we have been told this before so i won`t hold my breath.

26-08-2008

Thanks for the update Zoogiraffe, does mean that there is a female available for the Male?

I know the current situation is not ideal but they will not be able to get a female in if the two benegals are still there.