giant pandas for London? » London Zoo

24-10-2008

Hey people out there, don't get me wrog butt you all seem to be suggesting that ZSL would bring in Giant Pandas to boost attendance and give credability to itself.

I am sure that the ZSL of London would like people to think that they are of the highest standard and respected throughout the zoo community.

Many years ago l am sure this was the case butt not for a very long time.

ZSL is now going back to the old style of zoo keeping "putting on a show for the public" with very little substance .

I was there 7 months ago. So my opinion is based on my experiance.

It would seem a perfect example of the true position of the ZSL would be the Gorilla Kingdom experiance. Why has this taken so long to get to a reasonable standard. Yet still missing the fact that gorillas don't like big glass windows and open enclosures. ZSL could have really reinvented itself with this exhibit and become a front runner again. Also why didnt ZSL get to put together a better group? Yes l do understand about there silverback. Yet it would seem the people responsible for allocating gorillas to ZSL just dont trust them either.

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24-10-2008

I'm sorry, but i really don't agree with these points.

As Glyn pointed out, ZSL is still one of the major front runners in in-situ conservation which means that they deserve some major respect in the zoo world. It may have got left behind in 20 years ago in exhibit standard, but the developments so far in the 21st century means they regaining some of their reputation. London Zoo has realised that it is a city zoo now and therefore have changed the species list accordingly.

About ZSL going back to 'putting on a show', what do you base this on? ZSL is focussing largely on conservation efforts (which Gorilla Kingdom is superb at)

Gorilla Kingdom was originally a disappointment, but has improved considerably and ZSL really doesn't deserve some of the criticism it can get on here....

24-10-2008

i still think that they should put bonobos in gorrila kingdom and make it bonobo bonaza or something... i know take twycross's bonobos!

24-10-2008

I disagree here as I think the EEP try to be fair across the board. In London's case they have been allocated a proven breeding female(Effie) from Berlin and a prime young female(Mjuku) from Chessington in the hope that both will breed. Females to add to new groups are not available in large number so establishing this small group is all that ZSL could hope for at this stage.

Although there has been so little Gorilla breeding at London over the years, since Gorilla Kingdom opened they are making every effort to get a proper breeding group started. If the male fails to get the females pregnant soon though their next sensible option may have to be replacing him.

Regarding Giant Pandas- London have exhibited them several times before at roughly twenty year intervals so its quite likely they could reappear again in the future and 2012 would be a very obvious target for them.

24-10-2008

London will always keep the Gorillas- they are too popular for them not to have. What would be good is another adjacent exhibit ('Bonobo Forest' ) created for Bonobos too but I fear its unlikely..

24-10-2008

is there room

24-10-2008

Probably the pandas could be temporary thing in 2012. One example is the LA zoo getting pandas in two different olympics for six months each time.

24-10-2008

This doesnt really happen anymore...does anyone know when the last short-term giant panda loan occured. The last short-term loans in the US ended in the early 1990s and mainly stopped by the USFWS?

24-10-2008

I do think you have some good points. I respect a lot of the "behind-the-scenes" work that ZSL do, but they are NOT the national zoo anymore by a long stretch. I would argue that Chester, Colchester and probably Edinburgh are all miles ahead in teams of the zoos themselves, off the top of my head.

The new exhibits at London, particularly Gorilla Kingdom, seem to have met with almost universal criticism from zoo enthusiasts, and the Mappins being used to house wallabies and emus is a joke! I have never seen a Giant Panda before but I'm not half as excited as I should be about this news... to be blunt, I don't think London has the facilities to house them well enough. I feel sorry for Edinburgh as well, this is really going to steal their thunder!!

24-10-2008

So you are saying that the London zoo is not the National zoo in the UK?, the last pair of Giant Pandas which they had went to London because they are THE National zoo, even if their are zoos in the UK that are bigger or have more species it still would not make them the National collection

24-10-2008

I don't know as there is a national zoo. If there is, I'd say there's a good case for Chester being it - they get more visitors than London, have far more land, better enclosures and it just generally fits in with the general perception of a good modern zoo. I'm not entirely convinced that London does. Don't get me wrong, it's still a good zoo but I think it's a trend-follower rather than a trend-setter these days. Personally I think that they're after pandas because they're scared of Edinburgh taking some of their glory!

Also don't forget that London used to keep pandas in what was basically a monkey cage, so I still think many other collections could keep them better. Just my opinion though!

24-10-2008

I think you may of missed the point I was trying to make, the last pair of Giant Pandas given to the UK from China went to London zoo because it's the National collection, as I said other zoos maybe bigger, others may carry a bigger collection of animals, others zoos may have a larger attendance but that still does not make them a "National collection", As you can see with America the Washington zoo there is the National collection in the USA, in fact when China gave a pair of Pandas to Nixon way back in 1972 they were in fact shipped to the Washington zoo.

One of the problems with London zoo was they way it was managed in the "past" with not enough focus on the exhibits and it's animals by the management of the day, in fact "it was reported in the press" at the time when the British Goverment gave the zoo 10 million pounds to help the zoo lift it's self up most of the money was wasted on Management staff and flash cars, I guess those days are now long gone.

24-10-2008

I'm still sceptical.
I can believe that someone in the ZSL has wondered about pandas for 2012. I can make myself believe that someone else has costed it on the back of an envelope. I cannot believe that the sums add up, so unless there is a panda fairy godmother (or godfather) waiting in the wings with £5 million in her (or his) hot little hands, I don't think there is much justification for getting excited by a vague report from the Australian media (no insult to our members from Oz is intended - but I can't forget where Rupert Murdoch comes from).
On the other hand, I could be wrong . . . .

Alan

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24-10-2008

Exactly. Washington is by no mean the largest or most modern American collection but its situated in the political capital so is the 'National' Zoo of America. Same applies at London/UK.

And it seems in Australia too- though I never knew Canberra had a zoo until I joined this Forum!!...

24-10-2008

where on earth would they exhibit the pandas is a big question?