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  #16
Old 30-03-2008

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Originally Posted by ^Chris^ View Post
Is anyone else quite worried about the look of this enclosure?

I do hope it'll be ok, but I can't help but think this could be another exhibit that goes with the trend and does not address the multitude of problems associated with most gorilla enclosures.
Even Basle Zoo, who were the first and one of the leading zoos to breed Gorillas in Europe in the 1960/60's are now planning large outdoor areas for all three Ape species(they haven't had proper outdoor enclosures before) and seem to be following the current trend- big open(?) enclosures with watermoats- however we must wait and see what really transpires..

In Jersey's case, the current large outdoor area is one of the best ones in the Uk- being landscaped and quite well planted nowadays- but the existing house is rather too small. This is one situation where I'd say a completely new enclosure isn't really necessary - especially with the current group of 1.4 animals of which only one female breeds.
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  #17
Old 30-03-2008

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Originally Posted by jelle View Post
Any suggestions which new males would be genetically unrelated and suitable for the current batch of females (lo and behold not use any silverbacks from overrepresented breeding lines like Frankfurts)?
That's a hard one... As you know its becoming more and more difficult to source new breeding males which don't come from the overrepresented lines like Frankfurt/Jersey/ Krefeld/Apenhuel etc. There are still a few males in Europe but most are 'antisocials'

I think it would would have been a good idea if they had kept YK's son Mapema(now in Duisburg) in the group. He is genetically valuable too, unrelated to two of the Jersey females at all, and only distantly to a third(Bambuti) and being group-raised he would have taken over breeding the three females which his father shows no interest in. They could fairly easily have prevented him mating his mother- if Ya Kwanza didn't do keep him away.. then later either move the father or the son elsewhere if the need arose.

Anyway, it didn't happen and he went to Paignton instead. I do wonder if they will ever replace Ya Kwanza now...

Last edited by Pertinax; 31-03-2008 at 12:02 AM.
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  #18
Old 31-03-2008

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Originally Posted by Pertinax View Post
Even Basle Zoo, who were the first and one of the leading zoos to breed Gorillas in Europe in the 1960/60's are now planning large outdoor areas for all three Ape species(they haven't had proper outdoor enclosures before) and seem to be following the current trend- big open(?) enclosures with watermoats- however we must wait and see what really transpires..

In Jersey's case, the current large outdoor area is one of the best ones in the Uk- being landscaped and quite well planted nowadays- but the existing house is rather too small. This is one situation where I'd say a completely new enclosure isn't really necessary - especially with the current group of 1.4 animals of which only one female breeds.
Actually re-reading the article, it sounds as though it may be just the house and gym which will be new, and perhaps the outdoor paddock will stay as it is. Fingers crossed.
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  #19
Old 31-03-2008

I hope very much that they will keep Ya Kwanza with the female he is breeding with, he is genetically so very important. Either send them away together to a zoo with a smaller gorilla enlcosure, or keep them seperated as a second group.

For the other females, there are a couple of young male gorillas who would be interesting... the young males from the La Valle des Singes group (no Frankfurt/Jersey/Basle/Krefeld/Apenheul blood at all!), or in a couple of years the young males now growing up in Bristol (same). Or M`Tonge from Gaiapark, born Apenheul - ok he is overrepresented from his father`s side, but his mother was wild-born and has only 2 offspring. There are some more candidates out there; it`s getting more difficult but not impossible.
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  #20
Old 31-03-2008

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Originally Posted by ^Chris^ View Post
Actually re-reading the article, it sounds as though it may be just the house and gym which will be new, and perhaps the outdoor paddock will stay as it is. Fingers crossed.
That would certainly be the most sensible option- the house is really too small- but the outdoor is really pretty good nowadays and very spacious.
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  #21
Old 31-03-2008

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Originally Posted by Yassa View Post
I hope very much that they will keep Ya Kwanza with the female he is breeding with, he is genetically so very important. Either send them away together to a zoo with a smaller gorilla enlcosure, or keep them seperated as a second group.

For the other females, there are a couple of young male gorillas who would be interesting... the young males from the La Valle des Singes group (no Frankfurt/Jersey/Basle/Krefeld/Apenheul blood at all!), or in a couple of years the young males now growing up in Bristol (same). Or M`Tonge from Gaiapark, born Apenheul - ok he is overrepresented from his father`s side, but his mother was wild-born and has only 2 offspring. There are some more candidates out there; it`s getting more difficult but not impossible.
I think its just possible they may in time be thinking of splitting the current group along the lines you say, keeping Ya Kwanza and H.Kahilli (his wife) together, and the three other females with a new male. That is the most realistic option. I can't see them ever risking sending Kahilli away- she is the only current breeding female and only daughter in the group of their old female N'Pongo- I would prefer she stays too. Splitting the group into two may be their only option if they want to breed from the other females, as finding a new home for Ya Kwanza will be next to impossible.

Re a (potential) new male- the two at Bristol are both still only babies- under three years old! Similarly Twycross's 'Matadi' is genetically valuable but too young also(five) Gaiapark's M'tonge could be a possible. Another genetically very valuable older male is the 11/12 years old 'Nasibu' at Kolmarden(from the very underrepresented original Bristol line)-he is the right age but was handraised and as yet not a proven breeder..

Last edited by Pertinax; 01-04-2008 at 12:07 AM.
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  #22
Old 01-04-2008

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Originally Posted by ^Chris^ View Post
Actually re-reading the article, it sounds as though it may be just the house and gym which will be new, and perhaps the outdoor paddock will stay as it is. Fingers crossed.
I've looked at the artist's impression but am none the wiser. It does say they are going to recreate a 'Bai'(which zoo doesn't nowadays?) but perhaps it will be a renovation/remodelling of the existing outdoor enclosure. On this site there isn't another large space nearby they can use for a brand new enclosure and the existing one would become wasted space. Should be interesting when(if) it happens...
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  #23
Old 08-04-2008

Phase 1 of the re-development of Jersey Zoo will consist of

1. Mascarenia - a huge dome at the north west corner of the park to house endangered species from the Comoros, Mauritius and Madagascar. Free flying Livingstone's Fruit Bats will be the main feature. Other animals to be kept in this building will be lemurs and mongooses.

2. African Bai - a completely new gorilla enclosure which will be constructed on land to the south of the orang utan and gibbon islands. There will be enough room for a large group of gorillas and other animals will be Red River Hogs and guenons. The indoor accommodation appears to be as large as the whole of the orang utan area and south of that will be a huge outside enclosure.

3. Eco lodges where tourists can stay in environmentally friendly accommodation. These will be built to the west of the Mascarenes area.

Phase 2 will be

4. Research and veterinary facilities

5. Reptile and Amphibian breeding centres

6. Expansion of the International Training Centre

The Nubel Bird Propogation Centre has been refurbished and now consists of a specialised pigeon and dove rearing room, waterfowl incubation and rearing rooms and offshow aviaries for endangered passerines.

Durrell has been invited to found a captive population of Madagascan Pochard.

The Gerald Durrell Wildlife Preservation Trust charity has been disbanded and replaced by a new charity called the Durrell Wildlife Conservation Trust.

The Trust intends to continue to bring endangered animals back to Jersey in order to start breeding programmes.

49 Madagascan Side-necked Turtles have been reared at the Durrel supported Ampijoroa centre in Madagascar. It is only the second time this turtle has been bred in captivity.
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  #24
Old 08-04-2008

Wow!.... things seem to be happening bigtime again. I wonder if they have the funding for these developments yet?
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  #25
Old 08-04-2008

Money, money, money. Where on earth is it going to be coming from? I've read about rumors of private donors and corporate sponsorship, but nothing has been confirmed at this point. The timeline is supposedly 5 years for the majority of these projects, but it will be interesting to find out when the financing is announced.
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  #26
Old 08-04-2008

Phase 1 estimate is £38 million! Phase 2 estimate is £9.

The trust is planning a marketing campaign. Is this why Paul Masterton has been brought in?
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  #27
Old 08-04-2008

I'm most excited about the Madagascan Pochard!
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  #28
Old 08-04-2008

Looks very nice and exiting
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  #29
Old 08-04-2008

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Originally Posted by Writhedhornbill View Post
I'm most excited about the Madagascan Pochard!
I do hope that the last Madagascan pochard in the north-east may be captured to initiate a breeding programme at Jersey. Think what multiple egg laying and real genetic flow between the 9+4 would do for the species as a whole. It would be possible to breed up numbers quite impressively (just think what happened to Chatham island robins by the good works of the NZ DoC!
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  #30
Old 09-04-2008

What's the story with the Madagascan Pochard- presumably down to almost single figures?

Chatham Island Robin(Black Robin) there were only two breeding pairs and I think one additional bird left- but the species was virtually saved singlehandedly by just one pair- the female of which was called 'old blue'( her ring colour) she was a particularly fertile bird and laid repeated clutches of eggs, where the other pair repeatedly failed. Doc's manoevering of their eggs etc wouldn't have worked without 'old blue.

Going back to Jersey 'Phase 1'. I really hope that if they are expending huge amounts of money on a new gorilla exhibit, that they make it worthwhile by resuming a PROPER breeding group rather than what they have now.... Perhaps they will decide to keep Ya Kwanza and his one breeding female in the old building, and build a fresh group around a new male? In which case they are bound to claim the young female 'Jumatano' from Melbourne Zoo who is 'theirs' by exchange. I must admit the idea of it being a 'mixed' exhibit with guenons and red river hogs does sound an attractive idea and I'm sure Jersey will do it very nicely- finances permitting.
 


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