Molly's Zoo » Twycross Zoo

12-06-2008

what paying to get into those collections who dont actually do anything to save the species in danger? visiting howletts who say they will release theyre captive bred barbary liosn when they have no chance of doing that! no chance mate! and good come back wesley

12-06-2008

Twycross for me is not a particually good zoo. The breeding situations the Elephants and Gorillas are in is shambolic.

12-06-2008

So how is Twycross different in that respect?

'Molly's Zoo' may be an entertaining book to read but you shouldn't take everything you read at face value. It by no means tells the whole story and obviously she didn't see anything wrong with her particular approach to zoo -keeping and a style of management which still seems present to a large extent several years after her retirement.

12-06-2008

The continuing lack of a bull elephant is a bad omission and has aroused a lot of critisism on this forum. I also think they should have one though I can however see the problems they face with the cost of constructing the proper accomodation.

No such problems exist in the case of Gorillas; a new male should have been brought in a.s.a.p. after Sekondi's death. Apart from his females probably being stressed & miserable without a male, 'Asante' remains unbred at 23 years old despite being the only offspring of wildcaught Eva(now dead) and her genes will be lost to the captive population if this remains unresolved. The arrival of SamSam & Yinka from Edinburgh (originally in transit to Spain) probably killed 'Mamfe' from the stress of suddenly living alongside a strange silverback while the way the older gorillas in particular are displayed seems to me to remove all their dignity. I could go on....

12-06-2008

There seems to be a lot of bad mouthing of Molly Badham on here. The woman did what she believed to be right and without her Twycross zoo would never have exist. The way she went about it may have been wrong and it may be right to say the zoo was probably kept behind the times by her. At the end of the day whose to say some of the more revolutionary zoos around today may be classed as being behind the times in a few years.

Its easy to sit here and say she shouldn't have done this and she shouldn't have done that but we didn't run the place. The chimp tea parties may nowadays be seen as cruel but in those days little was known about animal welfare. The money provided by these chimps most likely kept Twycross going so that it could grow and eventually pay the bills through visitors visiting the zoo

12-06-2008

I don't think anyone is bad mouthing Molly here. I think most people on this forum would agree that Molly has created a diverse and great collection of animals, in what is only a small zoo. I love Tywcross Zoo the collection of primates is fantastic, but I wish they could maybe just plant up some of the exhibits to make them more suitable (Gorilla's, Orangutans, Bonobo's and Chimps)

Alot of people are stating there displeasure with the way some of the animals are kept nowadays, with the better understadning we now have. Enclosure are adequate but not great and this includes the newer enclosures. The fact that some of the animals are not kept in natural groups (Gorillas with no sliver back, OK some other problems may have held this up, Elephants not given the opportunity to breed and if they are they are thou A.I.)

12-06-2008

People are not bad mouthing Molly Badham. I met her and found her a nice little lady- though I certainly don't share her views about how to keep animals.

What bothers me is the way Tywcross Zoo still(today) manage some species(particularly as described above) and this is largely the result of the earlier principles which Molly Badham laid down and whichseem to remain largely unchanged since her retirement/death.

And I'm still waiting for the person who claimed Twycross has done much for 'endangered species conservation and animal welfare standards' to provide some examples....

12-06-2008

[quote=taun;56614I some of the animals are not kept in natural groups Gorillas with no sliver back, OK some other problems may have held this up [/QUOTE]

Its now coming up for 18 months but I wonder if they've even applied for another yet... They say they want a 'younger' male for safety reasons as there's a 5 year old still in the group- but that's still no real obstacle to introducing another male. I would be happy if they amalgamated the gorillas into a single group with 'SamSam' as the silverback- he wouldn't hurt a fly...

12-06-2008

Exectly, were stating our own opinions, that would come across if we managed such a facility. However many of us are here because we have an interest in animals and are not attached to collections. That doesn't mean we cannot give our views and opinions on the matter in had, it's not a personal attack.

12-06-2008

I gather that one of the females of the breeding group is related to the sliver back in the older group?

Am not stating that as an option, but was wondering why they have two groups any way with such small numbers?

12-06-2008

Definately not. The two females Asante and Ozala are halfsisters but not related
to 'SamSam' at all. He WAS the father of their mate Sekondi(concieved when he lived at Edinburgh, not at Twycross) so he's the grandfather of the 5year old male 'Matadi. But the females are unrelated to him.

The two groups arose because the younger females were fathered by the previous breeding male Mamfe so they had to start a new group. But now Mamfe is dead and 'SamSam'(who is wildborn) is staying permanently at Twycross. His only relative now is this one grandson, so he really needs to breed again.

The main problem with the one group idea is probably the number of sleeping dens in each enclosure, but it would benefit the animals a great deal...

12-06-2008

Interesting, thanks for the Information.

It is a shame, because the two groups combined would make a much better environment. Especially when it comes to potential new additions to the group with older experienced mums.

12-06-2008

Currently (apart from the very old male Joe who lives singly), there are six gorillas.
'Old' group is Samsam plus females Biddy and Bongo(Joe's former mate). Bongo has never bred and never will. Biddy has bred previously.
'Young' group is females Asante(Mamfe x Eva) and Ozala(Mamfe x Biddy) plus Ozala's 5yr son 'Matadi' (Sekondi x Ozala)

Combining the two groups in the newer enclosure would maybe be the best course of action- except that it would leave 'Joe' alone in the older house- maybe they could put non-breeding 'Bongo' back with him as a companion?

SamSam would then have 3 females- Biddy, Ozala and Asante. Though he's old he might breed with them- he has mated Biddy... Its still a mess though... Asante in particular needs a surefire male to breed with really.

12-06-2008

Even if SamSam didn't get any of the females pregnant, they would still have contact with an experienced silverback, which would benefit them greatly.

Lets just keep our fingers crossed that this get sorted out soonish

12-06-2008

Can i take the first part of my earlier comment back. Twycross is not a bad zoo, there are certainly worse zoos. It's just a fairly average zoo which could do with some improvements ina few places.

Molly Badham (and Nathalie Evans of course) must be praised for starting such an interesting collection which has housed such a wide array of primate species. Without Twycross the UK woudnt house any Bonobos.