news at Paignton zoo » Paignton Zoo

25-07-2008

The Kalaweit center maintains at least 50-60 Mueller's gibbons of various subspecies living on Kalimantan. Surely, some individuals here could be rehomed in European and Indonesian zoos as an assurance breeding population and educational tool to their in situ conservation. Kalaweit would receive lots of publicity and much needed funds to operate.

In a similar vein: in Cambodia the government confiscation station at Angkor keeps quite a few pileated gibbons in breeding capacity. These could all become part of the world zoo population and bring in much needed young females to the EEP programme (some US zoos keeps them, but very few and I do not know whether they have a coop of their own).

25-07-2008

It would certainly make proper use of the remaining zoo stock if global programmes were enacted with the cooperation of conservation partners in asia, as simple exchanges of animals to provide unrelated pairs could really kickstart ex situ breeding.

25-07-2008

Yes, Twycross does have a huge gibbon collection. I first saw Paignton at the end of the 80s, there were several groups on islands then, plus a couple in the old monkey house and in tall cages further back from this. The tall cages didn't appear to be on-exhibit but the tops of them were visible over the service buildings.

25-07-2008

They could keep 3 species - one with the orangutans, one on the traditional island in the lake and the pileated where they are now. They have a bridge over to another island where the marabou stork hang out. I'll have to check more closely next time I go, but I think the howler monkeys go onto that same island.

25-07-2008

Paignton's old monkey house. Originally it was just the indoor areas with outdoor cages at the front. A 'Monkey row' extended along the side but these cages weren't connected to the House. Later a range of about 4 taller very cheaply constructed outdoor cages was built behind the Monkey House and possibly these are the ones your referring to here. They could be accessed by the public and they connected via trapdoors to the indoor cages along the rear wall of the Monkey House. There were various inhabitants, Diana monkeys, King/black Colobus & the odd Gibbon(s). The last gibbon I saw in this house was a single Pileated- perhaps one of the pair they have now?

I think only Lars have been kept on the Lake islands, at least until recently.

26-07-2008

not the more recent run of wood and wire grassed cages at the back, but somewhere near this there were one or two tall cages by a service area I don't think they were on-exhibit, these frequently held gibbons when I visited.

26-07-2008

Yes, I think you are referring to different cages- possibly that was their 'quarantine' area, I don't know. I always found Paignton's old Monkey House a very interesting place- I can't say the same for its replacement 'Monkey Heights'- although the animals are obviously a lot better off spatially I think its a weird idea that they're prevented(?still?) from using the big Plane trees in the enclosures(obviously to stop them damaging them) and are restricted to low level climbing frames underneath.
I would have sited 'Monkey Heights' near some of their natural woodland to make better enclosures and feel they wasted an opportunity to do something really good here..

26-07-2008

Also because when the monkeys were first rehoused there, some of them found they could exit the enclosures via the trees!

26-07-2008

Do you know if the original intention was to let them use the trees?(before that was discovered)

I do like Paignton but feel 'Monkey Heights' is rather a white elephant, probably my least favourite new building around the UK zoos in recent years.

Mandrills- ISIS currently list 3.3 for Paignton -does that mean the 'odd' female has left?

26-07-2008

I haven't seen monkey heights myself, but if the escapes were unforeseen then it does smack of poor planning.....if protection is the issue then frankly that is ridiculous for Paignton to protect a non-native ornamental tree species from its endangered primates, while if as I suspect from what is said on here it turned out that the monkeys could escape, then they should cut back the branches to allow access. It must be extremely frustrating to live in little hotwired paddocks under trees you cannot access. That said, I have seen photographs of the indoor areas and these are a vast improvement, the worst aspect of the old house was the indoor housing, especially its height.

Incidentally, Paignton seem to have listed two variegated spider monkeys on ISIS of late, does anyone know where they are kept, and are there plans to establish a breeding group at some point? So many zoos seem to house the most odd combination of non-breeding and hybrid spider monkeys, but I'm guessing the variegated is so critically endangered that paignton is planning to create a breeding situation?

27-07-2008

That is exactly how I see it- it seems a very weird design to me. Here they had a chance to do what Howletts/Port Lympne have done and give them semi-natural enclosures. The enclosures are spacious enough and the indoors are fine- rather bland but roomy- but I just think this complex is in totally the wrong setting within the zoo though.

Can't help you on the Spider Monkeys, perhaps Gigit can...

27-07-2008

[quote=johnstoni;63625
Incidentally, Paignton seem to have listed two variegated spider monkeys on ISIS of late, does anyone know where they are kept, and are there plans to establish a breeding group at some point? So many zoos seem to house the most odd combination of non-breeding and hybrid spider monkeys, but I'm guessing the variegated is so critically endangered that paignton is planning to create a breeding situation?[/QUOTE]

There are two brown spider monkeys (are these the same?) in the enclosure formerly occupied by the macaques and then the male abyssinian colobus - it's at the top of one of the hills near the red pandas. They are brothers and the plan was to swap one for a female - unless this has already happened and I haven't noticed as I don't always go up that way.

27-07-2008

That enclosure is in a very 'out of the way' location. I first stumbled on it during one visit and the next time I could not find it again...

Monkey Heights
27-07-2008

I think Monkey Heights is a vast improvement on the old monkey house. I don't like the area where there are constant animal noises and buttons for children to press and wonder why you would have the sound of a colobus predator next to the colobus enclosure. I don't know if the monkeys find it as objectionable as I do - at least I can walk away from it.
I'm not sure about the trees and whether they planned for the monkeys to use them. The escapees were able to get out along the branches onto the walkway and the branches were then cut back. I would have to check whether there were teething problems with the baffles round the trees or the climbing frames being too close to the branches...... It opened in spring when there would have been leaves on the trees - when they were building it the trees would have been bare and not so wide spread.

Mandrill
27-07-2008

Ah - so she's gone then. I haven't spoken to a mandrill keeper lately. There was never any chance of her going back with the rest of the troop.