Paignton Zoo Gorillas. » Paignton Zoo

Claus & Pertinax
04-09-2008

When Paignton's Ape House first opened, the first Gorillas for the new bachelor group were Claus & Pertinax, two young silverbacks who had grown up in the group in Cologne, Germany, though they weren't related and neither was born there. Pertinax was born in Stuttgart and handraised, Claus in Frankfurt was mother(?)-raised. Both were from well -represented lines so neither was a priority for breeding, hence being chosen as 'bachelor' males.

At Cologne they were on good terms, being only young males secondary to the adult male 'Kim', though I believe Pertinax was the more dominant of the two. The move to Paignton in 1997 however radically changed their relationship, Claus became dominant and so aggressive they could no longer be kept together at all. A new home was fortunately found for Claus, who was sent to Bristol zoo's newly completed 'Gorilla Island' where after fathering one offspring he later died. Pertinax has continued to live at Paignton successfully with a succession of younger males ever since Claus left.

05-09-2008

Interesting insights into the gorillas's behaviour. I have to admit that I used to spend all of my time in the Ape House on the orangutan side, glancing at the gorillas as I entered and left. But since becoming a zoobeat spy, I can now tell one from another and am getting an idea of what they're up to. Pertinax was stretched out by the window in the sun yesterday morning while the others played about on the upper deck. We debated whether they would ever dare go on 'his' platform and decided probably not.
When the youngsters arrived they would hang onto the grille above the visitor viewing window and people would say 'oooh he's looking at you' when in fact they were staring through the public and watching the keepers. Now they do seem to look at visitors and have learned to knock on the glass.

05-09-2008

Continuing the discussion from 'orangutan island', I don't know if I visit at the wrong times, but I don't often see the gorillas outside. The door is normally always open, unlike when Damisi was still here and they had to share. Every so often, the keepers put different enrichment devices outside - they've had wind chimes hanging off the climbing frame, and a huge tyre for example. But I did hear that recently Kivu and Kiondo climbed high up in one of the trees at the far end of the island.
I noticed yesterday while on the dead end path watching the orangutans, that there is little chance of seeing the gorillas from there, unless they are on the climbing frame (or up a tree). They've cut back the bushes on the visitor side but that end of the island is very shrubby.

05-09-2008

They probably would if he was elsewhere, but not if he was near. I once saw a younger male approach when Pertinax was 'asleep' on his shelf, to try and take some of his uneaten food. Pertinax was off the shelf in a flash and the youngster fled with what he managed to grab. Even though Pertinax is gentle I don't think he'd tolerate any of them using his special place...though having said that, on one of my last visits he seemed to have 'adopted' one of the younger ones, which at that time was either Mapema or Damisi. I remember they were lying down asleep near each other- Pertinax on his shelf, the younger one nearby on the floor. I noticed several times how this male would stay quite near him. Does he do this with any of the current ones?

05-09-2008

Its commonplace at zoos with large open Gorilla islands-if they have the choice the gorillas would rather stay indoors most of the time as they definately seem to feel more secure under cover and don't seem to like open sky much. Its the same story at other places with open Gorilla enclosures like Bristol & Port Lympne, though at London and Blackpool they are shut outside during the main part of the day.. Most visits to Paignton I've see the males go outside, but often only for short periods and most of the day is spent inside. Still, at least they have the choice. I think the more covered areas there are outside(shelters, trees etc), the more they'll go out - which is why I'm surprised they haven't rebuilt the 'cave.'

On Paignton's island I'd actually like to see more tree cover ON the island, but less on the visitor's side of the water!

female gorilla rumour.
21-09-2008

Mention has been made on the Introductions page by 'Nosey Parker' (love the name incidentally) that someone has been talking about possible female Gorillas for Paignton.

Whether its on the cards or not, there's no reason why the existing group has to be just males. Two of them are still pretty young and its good for them to have had at least some experience with females anyway (especially if potentially breeders in the future).

The structure of the group could possibly remain the same with the females slotting in quite easily, or they might totally reorganise - depending on which male they wanted to breed with. I like the idea but is it wishful thinking here?

21-09-2008

Seems it as the zoo world would lose a valuable zoo to place unwanted Male gorillas.

21-09-2008

I have a feeling that having kept just males very successfully for a number of years now, that Paignton would like to be allowed to try their hand at breeding too.

My best scenario (unlikely, I know) was that the Orangutans could be moved and the Ape House then hold two Gorilla groups-one bachelor, one breeding. I agree that if they added females to the existing group(which I think WOULD be perfectly possible) it would cease to be a 'male' group' and they couldn't then realistically add MORE males in the future as this would almost certainly cause fighting.

22-09-2008

Since I read about this rumour, I've been wondering if they would move the orangutans. If it was away from the zoo, I'll be the one camped outside the Ape House barricading the exit! I'm just off to see them now so may be be able to chat to someone.

22-09-2008

Am all for them trying to breed gorillas and would love them to get some female gorillas.

It would be good if they set out a rule or recomendation that anyone joining the Gorilla breeding program provide room for a bachelor group. Unlikely I know but surely than they would create atleast a few more places to send unwanted males.

Be good to here what you dig up Gigit.

22-09-2008

The keeper I spoke to knew nothing about female gorillas. There are, however, two new boys coming from Stuttgart in November.

22-09-2008

[quote=Gigit;73950]Since I read about this rumour, I've been wondering if they would move the orangutans. If it was away from the zoo, I'll be the one camped outside the Ape House barricading the exit!

No, I wouldn't want to see them leave Paignton. But I wouldn't mind seeing them in a house better adapted better for their needs. I've said this before- the inside areas of the existing house are identical, yet for two entirely different species, at present it favours the Gorillas I think.

22-09-2008

Doesn't mean the rumour may not be true longterm. But two more males coming in soon means the existing male group will continue as is for now. I wonder if one of these will be the twin brother of the 4years old female(Kera) that has joined the Bristol group?

22-09-2008

It seems very unlikely that Paignton would start breeding gorillas as they are playing a very valuable part in the breeding programme by having a batchelor group. By keeping all excess males until a family unit can be established, they have a role that is just as important to the breeding programme as if they were actually breeding them on site.
I don't know where this rumour came from but I think it must be just a rumour.

22-09-2008

Exactly what I pointed out. The only way I can see them start breeding Gorilla if room was made for a Breeding group along side the Batchelor group.