Paignton Zoo Gorillas. » Paignton Zoo

01-12-2008

The two new youngsters, 'Kiri' and 'Ndowe', are full brothers and 'Kiondo' is another full brother. 'Kivu' is closer than a halfbrother to all 3- he has the same father(Xebo) and his mother 'Makinda' is full sister to 'Kena'- the mother of the other three. All four young males are grandsons of the white Gorilla 'Snowflake' through his daughters, their mothers. 'Kiri' is also one of twins, his twin sister 'Kera' is now being introduced into Bristol's group.

The mother of all except 'Kivu' is 'Kena.' Both she and sister Makinda were handraised, maybe why they won't rear young. I don't know why Barcelona kept allowing her to breed. In fact she is now in the UK too since 2005, living in Blackpool's group. As their male Jitu was a nonbreeder she hasn't had any more babies since leaving Barcelona- however that's likely to change now Jitu has gone and with a new male at Blackpool soon. With her past record its likely she will never rear her offspring though.

Regarding 'Ndowe'- I hadn't realised how traumatic his move to the French group must have been or that he nearly died. Maybe the two youngsters were put with older males too soon? I agree Paignton's is the best managed(male)group and I'm sure they will be integrated very sympathetically there.

I do wonder sometimes at the young age males from Stuttgart are being forced to join older and unfamiliar Gorillas- at 4 they are still very young and lacking in any social contact with older animals. But of course its an unnatural situation and also important they do start to socialise with other gorillas. In an ideal world I would like to see them join groups where there are females present to get some mothering interaction too. Maybe then move on to bachelor groups later on(at e.g. seven years old) Still, we can't have everything.

These introductions can be very complex. Another young female 'Mayani' from the Stuttgart nursery is living in the Dublin group. She is still a social isolate though as all the others are a related family and she isn't part of it.

02-12-2008

Why not integrate the young males into a family group for some years? I don't know, but I think if this would be as easy as one would think it could be (hope I didn't mix up all those "coulds" and "woulds" too badly...) Wilhelma would do it for they have an intact gorilla group of their own as you certainly know. They have a long experience in raising young apes so they surely know when it is the best age to integrate the young into their new group.
These days came gorilla baby Nr. 57 to the nursery - a half year old boy from Heidelberg whose mother didn't protect him well enough so he was attaced badly by his halfbrother. Now he will grow up with Monza and Mary (who stole my heart from first sight).

Regarding Kera: I've visited the Bristol Zoo's lovely homepage already and found nice pictures and reports of her.

02-12-2008

In an ideal world it would be good if all these young males could spend some time in family groups before moving into bachelor groups. But of courses the stresses and time involved in their integration into a breeding social group may preclude this, and may hardly be worth it if later they will move again? But it would help them socially, I'm sure.


I thought there was a plan for Stuttgart nursery babies to have(sight and touch) contact with the adults in their own group? To my thinking that is a very good idea.

I think 'Kera' at Bristol may integrate more easily than 'Mayani' at Dublin. The Bristol group are not a single related family- its two unrelated females who don't have that much contact, and their two offspring. I'm hoping 'Kera' will chum up with either the young female Namoki as a playmate, or one of the adult females will befriend her.

02-12-2008

So are they related to Kivu and kiondu? as they are also related to Snowflake But they are Half brothers and cousins.not any more thank you Pertinax I was only 42 steps behind on that one .Saw them today One was running around like mother theresa with his blanket on his head /body..By all accounts they are settling in well.Kombuku has the cold today sneezing and coughing not a happy bunny.Kivu has recovered and Kiondu is on the mend. The Sttutgart keeper is around and they all recognised her ,I can see where Kivu gets his manerisums from!

02-12-2008

@Temporary integration
Maybe it would be too much stress for the breeding group? If they tried in in Stuttgart there would be almost every year youngsters to integrate. That would have meant for example last year N'Bia (the one who died) and N'Dowe and this year Kiri.

@Baby contact
You are right. The babies have contact (sight and touch through bars) with the adults as soon as they have acclimated. And when there is an older group of youngsters they are brought together for playing hours. I've seen pictures and a short movie N'Dowe caressing very carefully tiny Mary... soooo sweet. It's Wilhelma policy in raising orphaned apes to allow as much contact to older ones as much as possible.

@Kera
I really hope she will fit in nicely, she' such a charming girl.
And I wish the best for Mayani. It is hard to integrate a new member in such a close group

02-12-2008

[quote=Pertinax;11449

I thought there was a plan for Stuttgart nursery babies to have(sight and touch) contact with the adults in their own group? To my thinking that is a very good idea.[/QUOTE]

I think what they've done at Monkey World with the chimps and orangutans is good - finding maternal adults with no babies of their own who become surrogate mothers to the youngsters who've been hand reared.

02-12-2008

That is the ideal way, for all young Apes to have at least some years with female contact. I think with Gorillas there aren't too many possibilities while the ratio of orphans to available adults is high too.

Its interesting that at Howletts/Port Lympne, with Five large Breeding Groups of Gorillas, I don't know of any case of a handraised 'orphan' being reintroduced into one of their existing groups, only to form a new group of babies. Nowadays most of their 'orphans' are repatriated to Africa.

On the other hand, Chessington's female 'shani' had to be handraised after her mother 'lomie' died when she was nine months old. However, they cleverly reintroduced her back into the adult group when she was only 18 months old and it proved 100% successful.

02-12-2008

Do you mean the babies in the nursery group can see and touch the adult Gorillas nowadays? That is really a big step forward.

I think 'Kera' may integrate okay at Bristol because the other Gorillas there are not a related family. 'Mayani' at Dublin may do better when (hopefully), she begins to breed. I believe that the others aren't hostile but they haven't bonded with her as she is not from their 'family'- so she may always be an 'outsider' to some extent.

03-12-2008

Unfortunately, the orphan group in Stuttgart is completely seperated from the family group, they can`t see each other because they`re in seperate buildings. Only thedifferent age groups of orphans have contact with each other. The plan for the future, when the new great ape house is built, is to have them in enclosures next to each other.

My suggestion for orphaned gorilla babys is to rear them until they`re 1,5-2 years old and then integrate them in a family group by finding a surrogate mother (either the birth group or another group). That is possible and I don`t think there are too many orphans, neither, considering how many gorilla family groups exist in european zoos. Then the orphans should stay in their "adopted" family until they reach maturity and then they can be sent to other groups for breeding, being hopefully well-socialized. Right now, they stay way too long in the Stuttgart kindergarten and that the males go into all-males group after that is the second BIG big problem.

03-12-2008

Hello Pertinax,
Kiri and N'dowe are lovely N'dowe is very inquisitive and spent lots of time this morning exploring the main indoor cage after having fun time with the keepers.Kiri was more intrested in looking out of the window. I had the pleasure of meeting their keeper from Stutgart, what a lovely person.She said that poor little N'dowe was so traumatised from his encounter in France that he wasbadly injured but more so mentaly as we can only imagine.There are three babies in the nursery the youngest being six month's old. The keeper flies back to-morrow knowing that her charges are being well looked after and the bond she had with them has now been given to their new keeper.

03-12-2008

1. Oh, so nothing has changed. I knew they were planning to do this but it still hasn't happened yet. It would be a big help in early socialisation.

2. I can only agree really. The first few years are the most formative ones, when they really need to socialise with all age groups. Later its harder for them to get any benefit.

3. I would have preferred to see the twins stay together for a while and both of them go to Bristol, instead of just the female 'Kera'. But I realise they needed to send the male as a companion for 'Ndowe' at Paignton.

06-12-2008

Hello Velvet,
I am keeping that special eye on little N'dowe and he is doing really well as he loves his new keepers.He is exploring his enviroment very closely to even finding a lose bolt and finding out what a hose is made of he looked like he was chewing gum today.Kiri was watching the silverback through the cages and Pertinax moved and he jumped and ran away but came back again later.So lucky to see them in nicer circumstances.
Greetings from Paignton

10-12-2008

Thank you so much! For keeping an eye on my darling and for the informations.
Speaking of bolts... Hope N'Dowe will not dismantle his enclosure and visit the keepers for a cup of tea. Some two or three years ago the youngsters at Wilhelma managed to crash one of their enclosure's window panes.
For Kiri's reaction to Pertinax, I think this very typical for Kiri. He seemed always to be a little anxious and shy in comparison to the others.

@All
If someone is interested: Here Mary und Monza - Wilhelma
you can find beside the touching story of Mary, Monza and now Upala reports and pictures of the first contacts between the babies and the older ones.
Its only german but online translators may help to understand at least the main line.

@Contact with adult gorillas
In the docu-soap "Eisbär, Affe & Co" there are several sequences where is shown that the keepers carry the youngsters to the house of the breeding group and show them to each other and allow contact through the bars on the back side of the enclosure. They won't have often time to do that maybe but I think they do it from time to time.
I'll ask for that subject if I have the opportunity to do so on my next visits to Wilhelma.

10-12-2008

If there was a small permanent 'nursery' cage built adjacent to the adult group cages they could put the older babies in there to allow them regular and longer daily periods of 'see & touch' contact with the adults. That way the keepers wouldn't have to take them back and forth, or find the time to do it, and they wouldn't need to redesign or move the whole nursery complex either.. It need only be a very small, simple cage.

11-12-2008

Hello Velvet,
All is well with Kiri and N'Dowe,They were so funny yesterday as they spent time in the main show cage...running around playing tag at one stage they were just running round and round a pole Kiri was very vocal and N'Dowe was running up to the window when he saw the others outside.Today he was very brave peeking in to the others and then he stood upright and banged on his chest.Should rename him Braveheart.