South Lakes Wild Animal Park South Lakes 2014 #2

Part two: continued from http://www.zoochat.com/38/south-lakes-2014-news-354852/

 

I hope the previous thread wasn't closed because of the discussion on the manner in which South Lakes is being criticised?

I fully agree with this. Some people are criticising the South Lakes for the sake of it.

I don't think I've ever been to a major zoo that hasn't mixed species from different continents and I've been to most of the highly regarded zoos in the UK, USA, Australia, Germany, Czech Republic and Singapore. It's something I've accepted as "normal" for zoological collections and really can't understand why this particular collection is taking so much flak for it?

I've never been to South Lakes (it's not a highly regarded zoo! ha) and from the photographs I've seen there appear to be a few bad enclosures but i've also seen photographs of good enclosures, the new snow leopard exhibit for example.

 

As nisha stated on the other thread, it was closed due to it becoming too long.

~Thylo

 

There are active threads which are longer and it wouldn't be the first time discussion has been censored.

~ Dicero

It's certainly true that mixing species can have its drawbacks but there are benefits in terms of enrichment. I've seen interspecies grooming in primates and there's a good arguement that a little harmless aggression is good enrichment.

I grew up seeing scarlet ibis mixed with sacred ibis, magellanic penguins mixed with prairie dogs and I even have a childhood photograph I took of a Philippine tarsier sitting next to a springhare.

I don't think a species' habits in the wild have as much importance as you imply. The situation in a zoo is entirely artificial, most of the pressures associated with living in the wild are absent and the majority of (mammal) species are captive bred for at least several generations. I think it's equally wrong to say an animal in a mixed exhibit is experiencing undue stress based on casual observations of a zoo visitor. If a "mix" isn't working the people who work with the animals should know and will no doubt seperate them. I'm not defending South Lakes or Mr. Gill but unless I've missed something this is all pure conjecture and there is no evidence of persistent welfare issues?

 

I'd love to see that tarsier/springhare photo

 

I did not say that. I said that stress may be present but not be apparent from casual observations.

I also said I was not referring to South Lakes in particular, but regarding mixed exhibits generally.

 

I don't know if Asian SC Otters still share the enclosure with the Bears here, but its worth noting Jersey once had this mix and I think they discontinued it after a Bear killed an Otter. Now the South Lakes Otters may be perfectly happy with their Bear companions, but so I think were the Jersey ones until it happened.

 

From my last visit at the start of the month, the signage was still in place. However, I didn't see any Asian short-clawed otter's on display.

 

[

Sorry, I was agreeing with your point regarding the visibility of stress/conflicts through casual observation of zoo visitors adding that it's also wrong to assume stress based on infrequent observation of zoo visitors.

Yes, so was I and that wasn't directed at you.

I'm mainly referring to the reactions regarding the addition of ground hornbills to the walkthrough area and the chipmunk/tamarin/bettong enclosure.
There seems to be a consensus that the owner isn't aleays honest so if we, for arguments sake, say he is lying here. Zoos are subject to licensing laws, an EU directive and, optionally, the rules of organisations like EAZA and BIAZA. If there were any serious welfare issues I assume this would have had to have been addressed. The
bears are EEP animals so I assume the coordinator is satisfied with the arrangement.
I'm no expert on the diet of wild Andean bears but it's always been my understanding their diet largely consists of vegetation with the odd small vertebrate and birds egg. I've just had a very quick search to find a verified tapir kill and have seen one paper
where they failed to find any animal remains in scat whatsoever and a few very vague references to tapirs being a prey species elsewhere. If they're a prey species why have there not been any fatalities? I don't think a tapir would last too long in a Jaguar exhibit

As I said previously I'm not defending him or housing tapirs with bears. Looking at the photographs of the place I think there's plenty of fair criticism to made but mixing tamarins, chipmunks and bettongs feels like a stretch.

Yes, you're absolutely right it was taken at Bristol, there are actually two photographs.
We bought a house last summer and have a loft full of boxes we haven't had time to unpack, they're either there or at my parents house. Sorting/disposing of the contents of the loft is something I'll do when I complete my PhD this year, I'll pm you both the photos if you can wait that long.

edit:
I've had a quick look in the more accessible boxes in the loft and couldn't see the album. Sorry, but you'll have to wait... on the plus side I've convinced my girlfriend to part with a lot of shoes.

 

Just to add that the Asian small clawed otters ARE still in the bear/caps bars/tapir/spider monkey exhibit. We saw them swimming in the pond a couple of weeks ago.

 

As Press releases: I feel it says it all, the man who is a liability and lays blame at the feet of others for his own failures (that's my own person opinion based on numerous emails from him to me some years ago). The man has made numerous threats to leave the UK and go to the USA, he blamed a keeper for her death, he has animal escapes and numerous legal cases against him, he is abrasive and rubs people up the wrong way. There is an old saying and it holds true. "No such thing as bad student, only bad teacher. Teacher say, student do."

-

 

Thanks, most appreciated. Saw that when I posted, you beat me to it.