Southport Zoo Mandrills.

09-08-2007

That would have been about the right number, given that three(?) others went to Trotters World of Animals. Am I right in thinking at least one, maybe more, of the ex American-bred ones(the male?) went to Trotters- so some of that newer bloodline is still in the mainstream zoos?

09-08-2007

Definately the male from the US side went to Trotters and I believe if my memory is right it was some females from the UK side and the private individual had US bloodline female (1 female + young male) and whatever was left from our UK side (Mix of young females and young males )

09-08-2007

At Trotters they call their male 'Charlie' but the two males from the US were 'Mica' and 'Bill' so maybe they did a name change. One of the US females was (i think) 'Mickey' and the other 'Opal' Does that ring any bells?

Trotter' s Mandrills(Charlie x ?) have bred at least one baby, perhaps more now. The private collector group must be growing too, I imagine.

11-08-2007

Thats correct with the names, We bought them back from Chicago Brookfield zoo in around 1989 Mica and Mickey went to Belfast on loan and we kept Wild Bill and Opal, Sadly Wild bill died around 1993-1994 leaving us without a breeding male, I believe Belfast were going out of mandrills or we had asked for them back at around that time because we took back the Belfast group which at the time consisted of Mica, Mickey and 1.1 offspring and intergrated them into the group with Opal who also had an one offspring.

We built them another enclosure along side the UK bred mandrills, unfortuantely Mica for whatever reason did not take to Opal and over a period of a few months subjected her to a lot of bullying which resulted in Mica picking her up and throwing her against the concrete walls, her face was smashed in, teeth broken, etc before the vet could get in she died from the stress and shock.

Which left us with Mica and Mickey and the offspring, over the years they bred more.

Mika died unexpectedly from arthritic septicaemia in 2000. One of Mika's male offspring took over the breeding of the US side a few years later when he had become sexually mature.

From there Trotters took that US male and UK females and private indivdual took US females and offspring + what was left on the UK side.

So Trotters definately has a US+UK mix bloodline giving them a new bloodline to run in the UK. ( But not Mica or Bill because they had died ), Charlie is probably a name they gave him, I cant remember a beasty being named as charlie in our collection.

11-08-2007

Thats all such interesting information.

I actually never got to Southport to see their Mandrills but found a good photo somewhere showing the two group enclosures side by side.

I also have an old UK Mandrill studbook that runs out just about the time the 4 US animals arrived...

So from all this, Trotters 'Charlie' is without doubt a son of Mica x Mickey.

The private guy could still have 'Mickey'- she would be the last survivor of the 4 imported from USA.

Its good Trotters have the US bloodline in their stock. Most other Mandrills in UK (apart from South Lakes) are from straight London x Southport bloodlines.

Incidentally, was it you who wrote the article on the Southport Mandrills which was in IZN some years ago? Many thanks for this information.

Southport Mandrills IZN Article
05-11-2007

I wrote about the Southport Mandrills a few years back, and reading the information on here then my old headkeeper from the 1990's is a member of this forum. It was a strange day when he returned to the zoo and I was the headkeeper interviewing him for the primate keepers job. Of course it was in the bag!! A great loss to UK zoos when he hung up his broom, he was certainly one of the top 10 animal keepers I have worked with over the last 15 years, and once Southport closed I guess he just didn't have the heart for it anymore.

Anyway, I just thought that I would say that all of the info about the Southport Mandrill group he has posted is 100% correct. It was a great shame when the collection disbanded and the group was split up. I had plans to build a new enclosure and mix the American and original Southport animals, but that was never to be.

05-11-2007

It took me a long time after Southport closed to find out where the Mandrills went to- apart from the Trotters ones. That group has now grown quite rapidly too- I think they are into double figures now. The Jim Clubb group is possibly the 2nd largest in the Uk now after Colchester's.
I think Mandrills are a species that could be suitable for a 'safari park' drivethrough reserve -if the numbers could be bred up sufficiently.

Collections in Uk with Mandrills that I know of are;

Colchester. 24 animals.
J.Clubb. 13 approx.
Trotters. 13(?)
Chester. 7 approx
Paignton 6/7
South Lakes ?

Only South Lakes group does not originate from the Southport/London bloddlines. Theirs were imported from abroad.

05-11-2007

You ever seen a large male? I've only seen one, at Liberec Zoo and i tell you that's one big thing you'd have on your hood...

Are there allready baboons used in drive-through exhibits because i doubt they would be suitable. I'd stick with the smaller macaque species...

05-11-2007

Knowsely Safari Park in the UK has quite a large troop of olive baboons in a drive-through enclosure.

However, I believe that most safari parks now opt for species such as rhesus macaques instead (longleat et al), or simply don't keep monkeys any more (i.e. West Midlands Safari Park)

05-11-2007

Where was the figure of 13 animals plucked from for Jim Clubb? There are 7 Mandrills.

05-11-2007

This person worked at Southport and gave me the above quote... I added the 3 existing Mandrills already at J. Clubb to make a (possible) total of 13.

If there are only 7, then presumbly only about 4 of these came from Southport? Either Southport had less Mandrills than I thought when they closed, or some were unnacounted for.

Can you give me any details of the 7 current Mandrills- e.g. Age, sex, if breeding?
And do you have a female that at Southport was named 'Mickey'?

05-11-2007

Plenty...
There have been many Safari Park drive through reserves with Grass or Hamadryas Baboon colonies- those males are nearly equivalent size to 'Mandrillus'. I'll agree baboons(and monkeys generally) are probably less common in Safari Parks than formerly though.

I think there could be a Safari Park somewhere in Europe- Spain? that has Mandrills but I have no idea where. If not in a drive thru area, then at least a really big 'horde' exhibited in a forest/wooded setting would make a great display.

06-11-2007

I'll dig out the details for the Southport Mandrills at Heythrop. I thinks some of their names might have changed. There is no Mickey but there is a Milly.

One of the females from Southport went to Cefn-yr-erw (where she now lives with a Spider Monkey) but that would be the only one that didn't go to Trotters or Heythrop. Only four or five went to Heythrop all together including the male now named Kelvin (who has grown into a very fine specimen).

06-11-2007

Do you mean a mandrill living in the same enclosure as a spider monkey? Is that one of the southport two that went to Cefn yr erw? Does anyone know why the spider monkeys were not placed with other zoos? Are they generally hard to rehome or was it because on of the two southport animals had no tail?

Also, does anybody know what became of the two Syke's Monkeys at Southport during the early-mid nineties?

07-11-2007

That would be great- thankyou. I'm just very interested in tracing which went where if I can. (I have a UK studbook but its very out of date now and so won't include the younger animals). If you read the earlier posts in this thread by the ex Southport people, it gives more on their history and how the groupings of Southport- bred and USA animals were organised before their departure.
Evidently there were only 8/9 Mandrills still at Southport when it closed
and not more as I'd thought.