Tiger Trouble at ZSL » London Zoo

04-10-2008

Maybe, but this is the style of new major developments at ZSL. My guess is the design would be similar to e.g. the Lion & Cheetah exhibits at Whipsnade, with Glass viewing windows, bamboo + forest-type planting etc plus plenty of interpretive material and 'feel' of an Asian rainforest(e,g. a replica of a wildlife ranger's hut!) incorporated in it.

If they used the North Bank area it wouldn't exactly be wasting space, more using up some unused space. Whatever enclosure size they are given, the shyer Sumatran tigers will probably be semi-invisible much of the time anyway, unlike Siberian Tigers or Lions, which show themselves well in nearly any exhibit.

05-10-2008

yes that is how is see it too!

05-10-2008

Having just moved one large carnivore off the mappins I really doubt they'll plan to install another, as we keep going back to the fact that there is virtually no opportunity to create decent indoor space on the terraces themselves, plus the height of the barriers required might even interfere with the listed status, especially given that the one of the major current drawbacks at ZSL are the singular outdoor enclosures for their two big cat species. I can't imagine the mappins separated into high-fenced paddocks somehow.

The lion terraces are such a bad use of space that it would be entirely possible to create larger compounds for both species. From a welfare perspective, it would be better though if, as people suggest, the vast area along the North bank were utilised for one cat species, where the crane paddocks used to be. Or they should just make three island pond the second tiger paddock, I don't think they're likely to breed from either flamingoes or pelicans in that enclosure....

The idea that you can ask visitors and supporters, who already pay £15 when entering the zoo (with an optional £1.50 added on for 'tiger conservation') to help pay for ZSL to whip up a fanciful trail through the Indonesian rainforest, is totally ridiculous. It doesn't cost 5 million to house tigers in decent enclosures elsewhere in captivity, so why should it do so at a collection which makes such a big deal out of the in situ work it does yet has long-owed it's two non-breeding, slightly disturbed Sumatran tigers just a decent outdoor enclosure with some height, privacy, separation and space, not some disneyfied 'experience' with lots of glass and contemporary design....paid for by public appeals and taking longer due to the costs involved.

At least the females are being swapped back, I never thought I'd think it was a good idea to send anything to Dudley, but in this case it is the best thing they can do for now.

05-10-2008

Chester have done this for a number of years. Asked for an additional donation to fund all sorts of projects and insitu conservation projects.

05-10-2008

Its interesting how ZSL have probably been the least successful UK zoo with this species. Paignton, Dudley, Chessington etc having all had more success.

As discussed before, I think the lack of success is more than just incompatable partners. But I still suspect that ZSL will build something lavish(a 'Trail' type exhibit) as that seems more their current design for the major 'flagship' species at least. Whatever they build, I think the Lions and Tigers would be better far apart and the North Bank would be the best site for a tiger enclosure.

05-10-2008

I think I'm right in saying that zoos with charitable status now have to receive a donation, on top of the entrance fee, before they can ask a visitor if they will allow the zoo to reclaim tax under the Gift Aid scheme.
So it's not really fair to beat the ZSL with this particular stick.

Alan

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05-10-2008

You are correct there and I don't blame any charity trying to get some more money.

06-10-2008

I remember speaking to a keeper shortly after the gorilla enclosure opened last year and he said that one of the next big projects was a redevelopment of the big cat enclosures but he didn't go into any details and had to go before I could ask for more info so perhaps things have been on the drawing board for some time...

06-10-2008

I think I've heard something similar so the current tiger problem won't be the only cause for redevelopment.

06-10-2008

is it just tigers, lions and serval currently in the collection? thanks for the news markun

07-10-2008

Yeap. Compared to a few years back when the zoo housed Amur, Clouded and Persian Leopard, Sand Cats and Lynx. Primates now live in their enclosures whilst the Servals live in the old Sand Cat enclosure.

10-10-2008

Sorry, you got the wrong end of that stick...I mean that to launch a huge public appeal for funds for an enclosure when visitors have been paying donations specifically for tigers on top of their entrance fee is asking alot.....yes the extra donation is for in situ conservation, but we again come back to the issue of needing £5 million to create two tiger paddocks. It's unneccessary, disingenous to ask the public to pay for something essential at an inflated price, and unethical to drag out a process which could be solved sooner if less cost and fanfare was insisted on by ZSL.

10-10-2008

I tend to agree with you that a good Tiger enclosure could be constructed for a fraction of this cost. Unfortunately London's current ethos seems to be that the enormous sum alone spent on the building work justifies the product- whatever the quality of the end result.

10-10-2008

Cynically, I would say it will be lots of floor-to-celing glass, harsh acoustics in public viewing areas, and limited platforms to keep it looking 'themed' as an indonesian forest.
(The howletts tiger platforms are gloriously ugly, especially those almost-vertical 'ramps' in the paddocks where the sumatrans now are, but the tigers seem to make great use of them). I can't see London going for these or lots of mesh, remember 'the bars are coming down', right? As to whether they'll craft little water features and planted areas/barriers to reduce pacing, remains to be seen. Even with the current design making long stretches to pace unavailable, they still seem to do it even in the tightest spots.
I would be over the moon if, even for £5 million, a howletts-style paddock complex appeared on the south bank with the tigers able to look out over the canal all day on platforms.

10-10-2008

ZSL should knock heads with RZSS, who have just managed to build what is apparently the biggest tiger enclosure in Europe (and by early accounts, one of the best) for £400,000 - less than a tenth of London's budget.

If they are planning a new exhibit on the site of the Cat Terraces then I can see why the costs would be somewhat higher. They'll have to demolish the existing exhibit and no doubt pay the professional fees of a design team to come up with something of "architectural merit", which always seems to be an unnecessary priority for urban zoos. (Creating a nice, simple fenced exhibit on the North Bank would presumably be cheaper.)