Twycross Orangutan moves. » Twycross Zoo

21-11-2007

Well offcourse they are when there completely bare, just grass and little climbing oportunities.

If would be nice to see them try some planting even if the apes just pull them up, its not money wasted if the get enrichment from pulling them up instead of playing with cardboard boxes

22-11-2007

Yes, what I meant was it was the ONLY good thing about their enclosures- mainly because of the glass viewing panels.

They did put in a couple of little clumps of bamboo in the 2nd Gorilla enclosure but I was amazed otherwise at how simplistic it was, just like the others. Also I've always hated the 'cardboard box' syndrome too- the indoor cages are full of 'rubbish' for them to play with but it just looks a horrible mess, and the apes STILL look bored to death- I genuinly think those gorillas are mostly unhappy animals... Regarding Apes, Twycross just don't seem to have any VISION. And those awful chimpanzee enclosures near the house- they wouldn't look out of place in a 'third world' zoo- they should have been demolished years ago and all the old pairs of chimps turned into a single group... its perfectly possible to do.

22-11-2007

Its really sad to see such social creatures (chimps) kept this way, if they wont house them as a group or cant afford to build a new enclosure, why not suggest talking to monkey world about taking some?

One of the things i couldn't believe is all the indoor area's are tiled, seems a stange as tiles dont retain heat well!

Lets hope chester zoo build a new gorilla house, with the recent new development am sure it will be modern and adhere to these fantastic animals needs.

I dont see how they can still be part of breeding programmes when they dont adhere to the guidlines.

22-11-2007

Does anyone have any pics of the indoor & outdoor ape exhibits?

It's been a long time since i last visited...

on a side note, I was pretty shocked at Twycross' giraffe paddock.

22-11-2007

Yes alot has been said regarding the ape accomodation at Twycross. Personally, I feel 4 ape species is definitely overkill. Keep the bonobos and orang utans as these are successfully maintained and bred and build them better accomodation soonest.

A question mark remains hovering over the gorillas. If Twycross really now make a move on with a young new silverback for the younger females and start a breeding group .. a big YES. Otherwise, send them all out on breeding loan elsewhere.

And I second that we - taun, Pertinax and all the rest of us - petition Twycross Zoo as a positive action to do something drastic about the Twycross ape accomodation inside and outside wise!

If the damn management can afford to build a new visitor center at 11 million pounds, why can not they fund new decent and state of the art ape accomodation!

Take it to the max, people!

22-11-2007

1. I think getting Monkey World to take their old chimps would be an excellent idea. I'll bet they (Monkey World) would have them altogether, or mixed in with their other groups, in a short space of time.

2. The tiled indoor cages started with their early designs, and don't seem to have changed since.

3. Chester would definately build an excellent Gorilla enclosure. I think the chimpanzee one is probably the best I've seen (inside and out). They nearly got Chessington's group at one stage but it didn't happen. They were going to build an enclosure for them specifically at that time.

4. I've never understood how Twycross can be part of EEP breeding programmes, yet maintain unbred Gorillas and Elephants in the collection for many years without any moves being made to get them producing young. I don't know if recommendations are made to them about this, or not??

22-11-2007

That`s a problem with the EEPs and many zoos, not just Twycross. Twycross owns its gorillas and elephants and therefore they can`t be legally forced to change something. I am sure that Twycross is getting recommendations to regarding the elephants since years - they just don`t follow them. Maybe it`s not "no we will never take a bull", maybe it`s more like "we`re thinking about it... no not yet...ask again in 2 years..." and so on. To gain time.
If the gorilla or elephant females were owned by another zoo and Twycross refuses to follow the EEP recommendations, that zoo can force them to send the animals back or to another zoo. But when the animals are owned by the zoo who refuses to cooperate itself, the EEP can`t do much. They can kick them out of the EEP and cancel their EAZA membership but this is so drastic that it is very rarely done. I think the EAZA should take a more agressive approach of the problem.

22-11-2007

Why not create a consultantancy and for a reasonable fee with offer them guidance on enclosure design

The problem is there are not enough zoo's taking all there animal needs on board when designing their enclosures and are looking at making sure the public get what they paid for "animals on show".

Chester have struck a good balance in their newer enclosures and howletts claim they put there animal needs first (havn't been yeat so cant see if its true). But thats the best the animals will get because if zoo fail in the customers eyes they lose business. Its the sad truth about zoo's

22-11-2007

Having visited Twycross today I can report that Norjahan (Asian Elephant) was given AI treatment a month ago with the results expected in the next 4 - 6 2weeks. On enquiry regarding the other three females, the keeper told me that no decision has yet been made about getting them in calf (or how). The recently refurbished elephant enclosure is allbut complete with just a walkway for the public to construct on the far side where it is planned to build a new lion and dhole enclosures (though I doubt that this will be until after the un-necessary new entrance and shop has been completed).

22-11-2007

There's certainly some of that in this situation. They told me they were 'reviewing' the elephant policy- and that was about three years ago....

As I've mentioned before, I feel the specific problems relating to Twycross are mostly historical. The collection was owned and directed by the two ladies who ran it together for decades.(Molly Badham having died very recently) They were simply not in line with trends in modern zoo or conservation thinking. Even as it grew, the zoo was still largely an animal 'collection' rather than a 'conservation' orientated organisation. If the animals bred, it was a bonus- if they didn't - never mind... I think that is still at the root of Twycross's husbandry and management issues.

22-11-2007

Give the place a chance their has been some major changes to the personnel in charge at the zoo in the last 12 months,the new waterfowl exhibit is the start of the new era,as it is most definitely not a Twycross norm,from what i know of the plans for the zoo i would say in 10 years time it will be a very different place.Finally one of Twycross females Giraffes is pregnant pity it going to be yet another hybrid to find a home for.

22-11-2007

Yes, and its very wrong isn't it? Its a sort of loophole in the system, and means effectively that the EEP is virtually powerless in such situations. This private ownership is why the Aspinall Parks could happily refuse when in the past they were asked to make animals available to other participating zoos. John Aspinall just laughed at their requests and told them to get stuffed. But at least they were breeding from their animals themselves, whereas that's not the current situation with Twycross.

22-11-2007

I do hope so...

I am not knocking Twycross just for the sake of it. Some of their exhibits and breeding groups are fine. Many of their lesser primates in particular breed well while care and animal health are undoubtedly good across the board too. I just feel strongly there are serious and longstanding concerns over the management of some species there....

22-11-2007

I second that opinion!


Zoogiraffe,

Honestly, I am not knocking Twycross Zoo either, but I have some reservations there ....... And I do think Twycross Zoo could be such a tremenduous advocate for primate conservation worldwide (entwine local breeding programmes with in situ conservation at the zoo and abroad).


You say dramatic management and personnel changes over the last 12 months have taken place. What indication is there the future for non-primate Twycross looks any better than it is right now? Do they have a long term plan for the zoo's development?

Should that not run concurrently with major changes 2 mega fauna at the park (giraffe, gorilla and elephant exhibits)? Should not the animals and conservation be at the forefront of new development (and not a very costly new visitor center)? A down-scaled development coupled with immediate improvement on some of the mega fauna exhibits is called for .. don't you think?

I look forward to your comments what they are planning for the foreseeable future of let's say 3-5 years from now ..........????

22-11-2007

Pertinax, honestly I can understand why Aspinall often refused to send his animals to other zoos at the request of the EEP coordinator. For example when it comes to gorillas and rhinos, there are so many substandard enclosures in European zoos and nevertheless these zoos get gorillas and black rhinos from the EEP. The black rhino enclosures in all german zoos who have bred them in the last years are.... hm, far from ideal to say it mildly. Hannover, Magdeburg, Zoo Berlin, Krefeld... I would not send my rhino to any of these zoos. Neither would I send a gorilla to Hannover, Krefeld, Berlin, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Munich or Heidelberg.... (and some more). I would not send a gorilla to the new enclosure in London, neither. I can fully understand why zoos like the Apsinall parks which have such great enclosures for their animals and really put their welfare over visitor`s needs wants to keep control over where their animals are going.

The situation in Twycross is obviously very different, though!!