Twycross zoo » Twycross Zoo

27-03-2008

Last i heard the zoo was waiting tosee how sucessfull the AI was on Noor Jahan,before deciding what to do with the rest of the females.

27-03-2008

Yes, they're very similar. In fact I've seen that book and I seem to remember noting that the caption was wrong and it was a French Bulldog. Not sure Molly Badham ever had a Boston Terrier (but she might have..)

27-03-2008

It was mentioned somewhere on this Forum that regarding the other three females;
After wscanning, one of either Tonzi or Minbu was regarded as no longer reproductive.
The other would be AI'd in due course.
The Twycross-bred female was thought a bit young yet.
So that's one out of three they may AI in the near future.

27-03-2008

CZ Jimmy. I'd be interested too. The question I can never get to the root of is WHY they don't intend to keep a bull elephant though I suspect its because of safety/management reasons? If you talk to any elephant keepers maybe you can confirm this?

Similarly with the Gorillas, any news on a timeframe for a new male for the younger group would be excellent.
Cheers.

28-03-2008

I only spoke to the elephant keepers briefly and couldn't find any gorilla keepers...

What the elephant keepers told me is that Noorjahan is due to give birth in August 2009 and they will attempt AI with the suitable elephants after that birth. As for the bull issue, the keepers were making a big deal about free contact with the females and I don't think they want to give that up with the addition of a male.

I'll have pictures (and possibly videos) later...

28-03-2008

Looking forward to seeing your pictures Jimmy

28-03-2008

That's a very weak reason in my opinion....

29-03-2008

Can't they just keep the females in free and the bull in protected contact? That's what most places with bulls do isn't it? I agree, it's a VERY weak reason!

29-03-2008

Yep, VERY weak indeed

29-03-2008

It wasn't so long ago that an keeper died from being attacked by the previous elephant cow at Twycross. As frustrating as it may be, you can understand the keepers not wishing to go back to working with an animal they don't feel safe around, despite protected contact actually being safer.

29-03-2008

Exactly our point why elephant keepers should not be in free contact with their elephant cows at all.

The very nature of an elephant-keeper relationship is one of deep personal contact and understanding, yet elephants remain "wild animals", have strong individual (yes individual) personalities and are certainly not the lovable creatures - to oneanother nor their human companions the keepers - a good portion of the zoo visitors mistake them for. Is that not a big element in why elephant keeping in general elicits such strong responses in people in general?

Besides their considerable size makes for a challenging environment for keepers in free contact to work with them, especially to be around them in very enclosed spaces. Elephants "know" their keepers and as the dominance-submissive dynamic is a relevant aspect of elephant group tactics and structure, if and when a keeper has an off-day or weak moment the elephants will know to take advantage immediately. The latter usually has rather major and dire consequences for elephant keepers and regularly ends in keeper mortal injuries. You just have to look at the statistics in Europe (of maintaining elephants in direct contact) over the last 10-15 years or so and it would not make for uplifting reading I can tell you!

All these aspects point to the inherent risks in maintaining captive elephants in direct contact with zoo keepers.

Post script: I would also like to add that if we would be talking giraffes or rhinos no zoo fan or zoo visitor would even be discussing this topic. F.i. "in with the giraffes" is just not on!

29-03-2008

I presume you mean the previous elephant(Iris?) which killed a keeper- that was a pretty long time ago now. The current elephants and the housing are quite different though I agree when a serious accident happens the memory of it will determine the management's view about things for a long time to come. I have often wondered whether it was actually that keeper's death which is at the root of their reluctance to keep a bull?

The free contact argument holds no water to me. Normal practise as pointed out above, is to have a separate facility for the bull so a zoo can still have free contact with the cows if that is feasible (as at Whipsnade). And Twycross has already had to send one of their young cows away to Whipsnade because it was becoming unmanageable-so much for free contact As Jelle said, with any other species this wouldn't be an issue at all. Personally I wouldn't trust any elephant(even females)further than I could throw it- free contact with females just increases the chances of further accidents- I like elephants but have no illusions that they are very untrustworthy creatures.

29-03-2008

I'd just like to point out (before there are some accusations) that the keeper never told me the exact reason for not having a bull, but she was referring to the use and preference of free contact a lot, so I made an assumption...

Someone more credible would have to ask the zoo, I doubt the keeper took a 16 year old seriously...

29-03-2008

don't put yourself down.. Every one that asks questions and gets an answer adds a little more to the bigger picture...

I think no two people at the zoo would give the same answer anyway- depending on their own involvement, opinion or position on the matter. This issue certainly promotes plenty of discussion though...

29-03-2008

Was the female keeper you spoke to German????