Black rhinos in Europe

08-02-2008

Yes, I heard about the 1.2. recommendation for Black Rhino too- but both Paignton and Whipsnade still set up only pairs after this.
Maybe Paignton should keep their female calf and exchange the male in the future? There isn't really room to extend the paddock but they could perhaps add another indoor stall -though Sita and her daughter could no doubt live together anyway..

Kingo is only related to Rukwa and her daughters at Port Lympne, there are several other unrelated females there he could be used with.

09-02-2008

Kingo can breed to cows Vuyu (ex Addo, South Africa) and both Etna and Jaga (ex Dvur Kralove - the capital of black rhino breeding in Europe) without creating inbreeding issues.

Kingo can not be bred to cows Arusha (same sire), Nakuru or Ruaha (same dam). Zuerich born Quinto could be a short term solution with these 3.

In the long term I would like to see an unrelated bull ex the SSP at Port Lympne (+ 2 more for continental Europe). I will outline my thoughts on this later today.

11-02-2008

As Port Lympne are lacking a breeding-age bull at present, it wouldn't surprise me if they ask for 'kingo' to be returned to them at some stage- or Kingo might go to Chester and Quinto to Port Lympne?

I agree in the long term some new bulls are needed....

12-02-2008

I think Chester Zoo will wont to hold on to Quinto for another year or so to see if Rosie will mate naturally with him. The omens were not all bad as at their first introduction Rosie did not go for Quinto (I also think that is partially down to the fact Quinto is a well-seasoned breeding bull who is not apt to become nervous under female aggression - as erstwhile Jos at London had to experience with her.

The likely scenario would thus be that Kingo remain at Paignton untill he has managed to successfully mate Sita again (and she is confirmed pregnant by him). Then Kingo will go to Chester again and Quinto will move to Port Lympne.

In a separate move by the EEP several unrelated bulls are then integrated into the EEP from US to add fresh genes. A move initiated by the present Species Coordinator.

12-02-2008

That certainly seems the most logical scenario in the short term...

1. How long do you think before they can start mating Kingo and Sita again?

2. Regarding Rosie- I agree that Quinto is certainly her best bet for a natural mating. Do you know if she experiences normal oestrus cycles?- I was told a couple of years ago that she didn't. Maybe close proximity with Quinto will change that?

12-02-2008

Jelle:
Who are two black rhinos in Cologne? Did they ever breed?

Were black rhinos ever succesfully mixed with smaller animals? I guess at least female in large enclosure can be compatible.

Do black rhinos have some exhibit size when they start breeding reliably? I always thought that they get lots of problems in small paddocks - they get incompatible, infertile, aggressive, but zoos with medium and large paddocks simply breed them.

cheers,

13-02-2008

Not necessarily... the original pair at Bristol Zoo lived happily together and bred five times in a very small house and outdoor yard- but they'd grown up from quite young together so were compatable. Hanover's original house and sand yard was pretty small too yet they bred too. Paignton also now have a successful breeding pair- but still only a small/medium sized outdoor enclosure.

Generally speaking much larger enclosures are valuable, especially where the potential breeding partners are unfamiliar with each other so there may be violent fighting (which is also part of courtship) and they need space to 'let of steam' during courship chases etc. So yes, the bigger paddocks are far more suitable- but success really depends on the compatability/ fertility of the animals themselves as well.

13-02-2008

The rhinos in Cologne are Taco (ex Hannover) and Tisa (ex Berlin) and they are not breedng (yet??). The enclosure in Cologne is very small and barren and totally unsuitable to introduce rhinos to each other. I have seen them together a couple of times but I have no idea if there is any possibility that he will mate her sucessfully. If this doesn`t happen soon I think they should move her to a zoo where she can breed with an experienced male, she has already lost a lot of time in unsucessful tries with Taco.

The black rhino enclosures in Krefeld and Magdeburg Zoo are also very small and barren, yet the rhinos breed sucessfully there.

13-02-2008

Thanks for info about chases and fights forming part of the courtship. I understand that calm individuals can be bred in small exhibits, but most need larger space to breed.

Maybe project coordinators might take into account temperament of animal, when recommending moves?

I wonder, what is borderline size, where two aggresive romantic rhinos are reasonably safe?

A bit sad that two rhinos in Cologne are young. I hoped they are old non-breeders. Zoo seems to have no plans of decent-sized exhibit for them. Nnow hippo-crocodile aquarium is under way. Maybe they invent something on the place of current bison-muskox paddocks.

I wondered if one can keep e.g. meerkats or ground squirrels with black rhinos...

13-02-2008

[quote=Jurek7;37753]A bit sad that two rhinos in Cologne are young. I hoped they are old non-breeders. Zoo seems to have no plans of decent-sized exhibit for them. Nnow hippo-crocodile aquarium is under way. Maybe they invent something on the place of current bison-muskox paddocks./QUOTE]

The Koeln Zoo pair is - to my eye - not compatible. I heard rumours that this year they will break up the pair and introduce a new bull with Tisa. I agree that the exhibit should be bigger given that the pair is not at ease at close range. I am convinced that if they would have access to the whole house they would be expected to breed more readily. Taco at least is a keen bull here!

Whether it is suitable to have other species in the same paddocks as black rhinos is anyone's guess .....! For sure it is an extra stress factor for the already sensitive black rhino. So, it should be handled with care. However, I am not of the conviction that black rhino are totally unsocial (that is a popular misconception among ... some quarters viz behaviour in nature where several individuals congegrate together (the Port Lympne and Dvur groups like to mirror this behaviour in their black rhinos).

Courtship wise the exhibit should be large as the potential for antagonistic behaviour is surely there. It is not something to be overtly concerned about, it is just the natural way of black rhino love-making! If you let the pair get on with it they will come to some form of peaceful co-existence. AND the female is ALWAYS the initiator of courtship behaviour. She is definitely in charge when it comes to choosing her prospective partner!~!*!

13-02-2008

[quote=Pertinax;36393]Jelle- do you know at which European zoo the bull 'Parky' (born Whipsnade, then formerly at Chester and Port Lympne) was sent to and whether he is still alive?

It seems a bit of a shame that Whipsnade zoo is not in the Black rhino breeding game these days, after doing so well over the years with the White rhinos and now with the Indian rhinos I am sure they could do well with a new modern exhibit.

13-02-2008

Thanks! In Cologne rhinos seemed very stressed in small paddocks sandwiched between old building and major path. It seemed very bad way to exhibit them.

13-02-2008

That's a good summary- I think individuals familiar and compatable do okay in small enclosures- even here they will fight and joust during courtship but its not serious aggression. I think for unfamiliar rhinos, the bigger the paddock the better to allow them to run freely, to tire themselves out or escape each other without any harm done. I can't give an exact 'borderline' size but I imagine Paignton's 'medium sized' enclosure is an example, its not huge but there is a decent indoor area, a large (divided)yard and a small grassy paddock used in summer or during mating.

13-02-2008

Maybe 'Taco' and 'Tisa' are similar aged? Zoos often make up new pairs using similar aged pairs when really a mature(preferably experienced) bull is needed, otherwise breeding years are wasted while the cow is already mature but the bull isn't capable. But not always, it varies in each situation....

Regarding enclosure size- yes, with compatable pairs enclosure size seems almost irrelevant. e.g. Bristol's breeding pair(1950/60's) had just a circular concrete yard about 25 metres diameter with a single tree stump in the centre!

13-02-2008

[quote=MARK;37767] Marky- I reckon you won't see Black Rhino at Whipsnade again. I think moving them to the large paddock, sited just opposite the Giraffe House and old sealion pool, was their attempt to improve their accomodation, but the irony was the four different rhinos(listed above) that lived in that enclosure over a period of about fifteen years didn't breed, yet the previous pair(+ another male who fathered 'Parky') had done so in the older,smaller enclosure which you'll no doubt remember.

In fact,the female Emma didn't breed with either KataKata or Quinto, while her replacemrent Saya(from Berlin) was only there a matter of months before she died- I don't know what happened with her. Presumably it was enough for them to decide they shouldn't try to get any more and give up with the species.

'Parky'(Rupert x Mama) was in fact the only Black rhino born at Whipsnade to reach maturity, though a couple of other calves produced there later died at the zoos they were sent to.