European elephants

09-04-2008

So Ostrava will become a breeding facility?

09-04-2008

yes that is the plan

12-04-2008

I'm just asking do you know exactly what elephant bull is going to ostrava?

13-04-2008

sorry mate I havent heard! If I do I'll let you know

20-04-2008

I must ask if ostrava will become a breeding facility it will only have one cow breeding cow, not like that is bad in much of a way i'm just asking although you haven't heard about the bull will their be any cows moving in?

21-04-2008

Normally, I do not joke about counting .. but I can see 1 bull and 3 cows at Ostrava, so that makes 4! Both Jothi and Vishesh can still be mated.

What is your point here then? Do you mean to import more reproductive age females to Ostrava?

Anyone have any idea as to the possible bull? I hope Naing Thein may travel to Ostrava for 8-10 months to bring his good deeds and leave the breeding cows happy for 22 months onward!

21-04-2008

Sorry i meant one fully productive breeding cow. Yes Jothi can still be mated but i wonder how high are the chances? On the contrary their are four cows at Ostrava Jothi, Vishesh, Jumbo and Sussela. And if their was a bull that makes five. I do think Naing Thein will be a great sire. But apparently he has reached the point of the EEP descendant limit. But then again Prague did try to mate Naing Thein with Shanti and the former cow Praya. Also the main reason that Naing Thein was shipped away from zoo emmen was to prevent inbreeding to his daughters espicially Mingalar Oo.

22-04-2008

Feels like it's getting more and more important to get Boy out of Kiev... Almost every other bull is either too young or has too many offspring.

22-04-2008

I wish we had a time machine sometimes.

23-04-2008

Jana,

It is a public secret and political! Hannover Zoo has been "lacklustre" in its treatment of Calvin on hard and concrete standing. He did have leg deformities from birth and since having grown into a large bull is now a totally paraplegic elephant. The management and keeper staff at Hannover has certainly not helped and exarcerbated this condition no end. Besides the elephant breeding record of Hannover Zoo is not particularly great (just 1 cow has had 2 calves with the second cow that makes .... 3).

I now fear for the welfare of Nikolai too! Drastic measures are needed if Hannover Zoo is to become a true elephant breeder instead of a consumer.

23-04-2008

I'm not the elephant expert, but I'm pretty sure Timber was already a "rascal" when he left for sevilla. admitted, his character hasn't improved, but I'm not sure if it's all due to sevillas methods.

regarding the enclosure in Eindhoven. they aim to keep 2-3 bulls at the most. great facility for surplus bulls isn't it? so I pretty much doubt alex going there. my best guess is some adolescents from emmen or so.

23-04-2008

I heard that he was in bad shape. He just has bones showing most of the time. He is 290cms and only 4.3 tonnes i think that is a bit light for a 21 year old sri lankan bull

23-04-2008

Yeah probably it will hold the bulls from emmen sevilla is getting a bit full. With Maurice and Maxim also. I wonder is Thisiam from Plock going to Kolmarden or Eindhoven. You are right about Timber the bull was quite aggresive at times and even in a enviorment with cows he is a hothead.

24-04-2008

This is mere speculation ..., but I personally think that Thisiam is due to move to a breeding location soon. That would seem logical as he is now almost 10, he is developing into an impressive immature bull and is from a genetically underrepresented lineage (the Paris bull Siam and cow Kaveri).

Locations looking for a bull are Dublin, Kolmarden, Ostrava and Planckendael (the Antwerpen relocees). In the medium term Amsterdam will also require another bull (but not for another 3-4 years as construction is not due to start till probably 2010).

Possible source bulls are: John at Perm and Boy at Kiew. I will be damned why both - even proven bulls - have not yet been scooped up into the EEP Asian elephant breeding programme. Both zoos are actually not participating at all ..... (curious I would say ...)!???


Coming back to Polish zoos:
The Plock enclosures have been designed with maintaining some bulls in mind and they have had both Thisiam and Kobenhavn bull Santosh (alas deceased in 2006) during late 2002/early 2003.

I suppose this year Poznan is due to open its new African elephant exhibit. It will be interesting how they propose to fill the exhibit. Will this be with relocees from zoos only maintaining singletons or fresh imports from southern African "cull" elephants?

It is equally interesting to learn what the other Polish elephant holders propose to do with their exhibits and elephants. This includes Gdansk (0.1), Krakow (0.2), Lodz (0.2) and Wroclaw (0.3). Most keep elephants in the 35+ age class. Of these 6 will reach the end of their lifespan within the next 7-10 years.

Anyone have any ideas on the current management plans for Polish elephants and their future outlook?

24-04-2008

Poznan exhibit is themed for African elephants and I think it is more-the-less fixed that they will be new imports from Africa. I seen pictures from the construction site, the house looks gigantic and paddocks are huge.

Warszawa's relatively new herd of 1,3 Africans is approaching maturity and everybody hopes for breeding within few years.

Wroclaw just received two females to keep company to their elderly Asian. They redevelop historic, listed "pachyderm house" to keep only elephants and with more space.

I think for at least 10 years Wroclaw will keep non-breeding elderly Asians in this house. Zoo has grand plans, but there are other priorities, like huge Africa-themed oceanarium where hippos will move.

Gdansk, Krakow and Lodz - I suppose they will keep their very elderly elephants until their die. I think none wants to stop exhibiting elephants in the long term but have no fixed plans and long list of other developments.