Lowland gorillas in Europe

romina.
08-01-2008

It wouldn't surprise me to hear that Romina was pregnant again at Bristol either soon or even now. She became pregnant again only a year after her first ever baby 'Namoki' was born, and while she was feeding him, but (perhaps fortunately) she miscarried, so she is evidently very fertile now.

09-01-2008

1. OK, the way you describe things, I seem to have a faint recollection of Linda being in Artis. I wrongfully assumed that since Wassenaar had their own breeding group - am I am right on the last bit? - that Yaounde was sired by their resident male. Not so, well that makes our late Tembo even better represented in the current gorilla EEP (no suprise that Yaounde is doing so well as a silverback given his father's example in later life).

2. As you can see I meant Bongo 2 is a useless gorilla in terms of leading a gorilla troupe. With Romina, I meant any other suitable bachelor silverback and she would have had at least 3-4 offspring represented by now already.


Something new taken out of another thread:
[quote]The zoo with the largest number of ancient old apes is probably Frankfurt -
gorilla male Matze, age 50 (and still fertile, his last offspring was born in spring 2007)[unqoute]

Am I correct that Matze only breeds with just the one female? Any chances that a new group may be formed with the newer members in the Frankfurt troupe that do not breed with Matze?

09-01-2008

I think this should be here (instead sizzling on the Antwerpen Zoo forum).

There is confusion surrounding the Antwerpen Zoo gorillas.
In the other thread people have come up with the rumour that the younger female might not be a true graueri, but a beringei instead.

I picked it up .. but it will not let go!

M Kumba, no doubt a ssp. gorilla (silverback with no clout or fertile game)
F Victoria, captive-born in 1968 at Antwerpen
F Amahoro, wild-caught and estimated born around 1989. Rescued by the Jane Goodall Institute and taken out to Antwerpen Zoo in October 1993.

The controversy surrounds F Amahoro. Is she a true graueri or possibly beringei?

10-01-2008

1. Yes, Wassenaar had a male 'Oscar' but maybe he was no good. Linda definatrely went to Tembo twice, and their first son 'VIP' was the first gorilla birth for Wassenaar- then Yaounde was the 2nd. Tembo has two or three other children I think.

2. Yes, if Romina had lived with a good male from early on, she could have had several offspring already- I think the cataracts wouldn't have stopped her breeding. As she is the only offspring of her parents, she's genetically valuable too- but I think she'll breed again okay at Bristol. She's a lovely- looking female, and big too(same size as her old 'mate' Bongo...)

3. Matz- seems to have lost interest in most of the females in his group. I imagine they will 'pension' him off soon and add a new male?

10-01-2008

I've seen photos of 'Amohoro'. She doesn't look to me like a typical Eastern Lowland gorilla, but nor does she look like a typical member of the mountain/beringei race. Could she be from the Bwindi population? They are supposed to have characteristics of both the other eastern populations.

10-01-2008

I don`t think (and don`t hope!) that Matze will be removed from his group. He is 50 years now and not in perfect health so he will probably die in the next 1-3 years and removing him from his family now would be cruel and unnecessary since the females in his group are all genetically well-represented. Gorillas are breeding very well in zoos so producing as many offspring as possible is not necessary. Matze is breeding with super mother Rebecca and he has mated the young female Ruby (who came from Leipzig - actually she is genetically important since her mother is wild-caught and has only one other daugther at the moment but Ruby is so young that she can easily wait a few years). Then there is female Dian from Arnheim who is good breeding age, I have no idea why she is not getting pregnant. The 2 other females, Jule and Dorette, are over 40 and probably too old for breeding. Female Zar Zar who wasn`t getting pregnant neither was moved to Heidelberg 3 years ago and now she has a one year old son, so that worked out great. If the EEP wants Dian to have a baby soon, they should opt for the same solution and send her to another zoo. That would leave Frankfurt with Rebecca and Ruby as breeding females (which is definately enough if not already too much for male who is genetically overrepresented) and 2 old females. When Matze dies, they can easily add one more young female from another zoo so that they`d have 3 breeding age female for the new silverback which would make a very nice group.

It`s so easy to say "the silverback is not breeding (well enough), get rid of him and get a new one" - but what to do with all these non-breeding males? They are individuals with feeling and emotions, intelligent and sensitive, and need the company of females and a good home. And they are usually poor candidates for bachelor groups, having been a group leader for a couple of years.

10-01-2008

No, no ,no. Don't get me wrong here- I would NEVER like to see Matz split from his females or sent elsewhere... I did wonder if they might retire him from the breeding group in due course and maybe just keep him with the oldest females- but I imagine its more likely he will die of old age within the group. I agree there is no need either for Frankfurt to be producing anymore gorillas at this stage either and he is very well represented in European breeding groups..

I first saw 'Matz' aged about 10 years when he had just arrived at Frankfurt Zoo. He came from somewhere in America( a circus cage?) where he had lived in very cramped conditions. Consequently he had little room for exercise and he moved about the Frankfurt cage by supporting himself with his arms as his legs were not very strong. fortunately proper care and exercise at Frankfurt meant he soon overcame that problem and turned out to be Frankfurt's most successful male Gorilla ever. I hope he continues to live on in Frankfurt's group for some time to come...

10-01-2008

Then let`s hope that this will happen.

10-01-2008

Yes. There are situations where its good for a silverback male to be replaced, in order to further breeding. But Frankfurt and Matz at 50 years old definately don't come into that category....

10-01-2008

Good news from Hannover: Zazie gave birth to a healthy baby (of yet unkown gender) in the last days. It`s her 5th, maybe the first son after 4 daughters? It`s Buzandi`s 5th offspring and the 4th surviving (so far).

10-01-2008

That's good news...

Was it you who said that although this group is breeding well, Buzandi has not really integrated into the group that much? Is there a problem? It seems an odd situation as he is breeding well....

10-01-2008

Any news on the Gorilla situation at Berlin with Ivo?

I heard they were going to split the group and add a new male(Yeboah, born at Hanover, son of 'Arti') for the younger (breeding age) females....

11-01-2008

Could have been me about Buzandi, I havn`t been in Hanover for a while and the situation might have improved now, but until a year or so again the females were always as far away from him as possible, and I`ve never seen him trying to make contact. The only member of the group who was interested in being near him was young female Josy. Strange that the females allowed him to mate when they were in heat...

I really hope that it`s going better now that his kids are getting older and might make contact with him on their own.

I have not heard any news about the gorillas in Berlin but I wouldn`t be surprised if they get a new male soon. Yeboah sounds like a perfect candidate, mother-raised in a good social environment and the oldest son of a wild-born female. What I know is that Belrin is currently improving and enlarging serveral enclosures in the great ape house with the money earned by Knut. The chimps get a new enclosure - indoor and outdoor - at the place where the 2 old solitary Borneo orang utan males lived. The 2 cages are put together and enlarged in the direction of the visitor area. Outdoors, the old borneon orang utan enclosure gets covered by a mesh and maybe enlarged to make it suitable for the chimps (not that it had been suitable for the orang utans, either...). One of the 2 male orang utans who lived there before died, and the other one has been moved within the big ape house and now shares the enclosure of the siamangs.

An article in the local newspaper mentioned that the gorillas would also get a new enclosure, 3 times bigger then the old one. No idea if this means indoor or outdoor or both, but I am hoping the best.

11-01-2008

Yassa+Pertinax,

I am not entirely in agreement with you. I think it is time to dream and have a vision beyond just the captivity stakes. The western lowland gorilla is also on the verge of extinction in the wild and we cannot remain complacent.

Why should we not breed more gorillas in European zoos and have surplus gorillas offered to reintroduction schemes. The John Aspinall zoos' are doing a brilliant job here in Congo-Brazzaville and Gabon.

Time to make a move ... on!

11-01-2008

The western lowland gorilla population in the wild stands at serveral 10.000 animals (not sure what the newest estimations say, it used to be more then 100.000 animals a year or maybe 2 ago!) and although they have been upgraded to "critically endangered" recently, it`s still the least endangered gorilla subspecies with all other gorilla subspecies and most other great ape species being much rarer (bonobos, both species of orang utan, and at least one subspecies of chimps - leaves only the eastern and central chimp subspecies who could be less endangered then western lowland gorillas).

Reintroducing great apes is highly difficult and expensive and considering the current situation in the wild, it`s pretty much unnecessary at the moment. It`s surely a good idea to restore gorilla populations which have been wiped out by poaching or ebola, but there are plenty of orphaned gorillas in crowded african sanctuaries who could be used for that too.

It`s also worth a thought if the funds for that wouldn`t be better invested in protecting existing gorilla, bonobo and chimp populations and their habitat. The project of the Aspinall zoo`s has big problems at one of their release sites because the blackbacks and silverbacks left the "safe" area and got much too close to the villages. Some had to be captured and put back into captivity (large island if I remember right). It`s surely no good idea to send more surplus males from Europe to this place.

Last, zoos have to take animal welfare in account, and in Matze`s case this means letting an ancient old silverback pass away surrounded by his family. The welfare of individuals and best breeding results are often in conflict, but in case of western lowland gorillas, who are breeding very well in Europe and the USA and with reintroduction not necessary to restore the wild population, animal welfare must be taken seriously. Zoos are no puppy mills!