Lowland gorillas in Europe

11-01-2008

I think I would agree largely with Yassa's comments above. Howletts and Port Lympne reintroductions have not all been successful- as stated above several silverbacks and blackbacks have had to be 'reconfined' after causing trouble near their release areas. Also, despite their successes, its not much publicised that several young 'orphans' sent from the Howletts groups to Africa have died too.

I think each zoo group needs to be treated individually. In a case like Frankfurt, Matz should be allowed to pass away with dignity in his group. Amazingly he's still breeding but like many silverbacks, his interest in some(most) females in his group has dwindled over time. So there will be a natural hiatus in breeding there until a new male replaces him.

I believe that realistically, the European gorillas(with some exceptions like the Aspinall projects) need to be largely managed as a zoo population only, rather than aiming to provide animals for release schemes as well. That will mean more careful planning in future for the production of more young gorillas at many of the zoos involved, taking into account their relatedness and where they can be housed in the future. But at the same time maintaining a stable and balanced population. Quite a juggling act?

11-01-2008

1. Buzandi. I believe when he first arrived at Hanover he was pretty aggressive- perhaps the females haven't forgotten that and keep away from him- except when they are in oestrus of course The young ones may help to make the group more cohesive- also Buzandi is likely to 'mellow' as he gets older and relationships may become more relaxed.

2. Berlin. Good news if they are to enlarge the Gorilla enclosure. Maybe they will wait until its been done before adding a new male? Ivo is another case where I think it would now be better if he could stay where he is with a couple of non-breeding females for company- and not be transferred away. I'm pretty sure 'Yeboah' would be the additional(?) male as he is mentioned on the EEP list.

11-01-2008

Yassa,

On Frankfurt and Matze:
My plea on behalf of offering surplus captive western lowland gorillas for reintroduction projects, made no mention of the preferred status quo for Matze in Frankfurt Zoo!

However, I do think that the gorilla troupe needs to be split up as Matze is no longer so active in the breeding stakes.
1) Matze should live out his retirement in dignity with 2 of the original and older range gorillas in his group. That is: Rebecca - allthough not particularly old, a favourite of his - and Jule.
2) The younger females - Dian, Fossey (I think this Matze offspring should stay as a stabilising factor in the group) and Ruby should become the core of a newly formed breeding group. An unrelated blackback or silverback should integrate with this unit.

The above moves would happen when the Pongoland exhibit is scheduled to open this summer.



On reintroduction and in situ conservation:
Whereas I accept we may beg to differ on the reintroduction projects - sure problems exist but these can be overcome by building on the experience as we move forward -, I do not think we can treat the captive EEP population as a singular unit.

If one accepts that population management is necessary - and I am convinced we all share this notion - that requires that frequent influx of new genes is necessary in each subpopulation and individuals overrepresented taken out of the breeding pools. The EEP and SSP populations more or less operate with population management in place and are PART of that mega population of western lowland gorillas in captivity.

Both stable captive population are THEN also part of the mega population of wild and captive gorillas. Without active population management some wild gorilla populations will not survive. This is where zoos can move in to contribute their management experience of the species in captivity and assist with proper protection of wild gorilla stocks (and also reintroduction at sites where the species has become extirpated). The trend in wild gorilla populations is a downward spiral, so the less wild gorillas the more urgent becomes that zoos become involved in the Great Ape Crisis (both in Africa and also ... in Asia).

For the above you only have to read the WAZA management guidelines on reintroduction of captive taxa to the wild and the population management for endangered taxa in captivity!

11-01-2008

1. I wouldn't have any objection to the Frankfurt group being split in the way you describe. As long as Matz still has a couple of female companions I doubt he wouldn't miss the other females. That is along similar lines to what Rotterdam did with Ernst-'retired' him to Spain with two old females.

2. Do you know if the new Pongoland exhibit at Frankfurt will have the facilities to house two separate groups of Gorillas? Is that what they are planning to do?

3. I heard the young female 'Fossey' has already moved to Valencia.

4. If they do bring a 2nd male in while Matz is still alive, I imagine the most obvious groupings would be;
Matz with Jule/Dorretchen(retirement group)
new male with Rebecca/Dian/Ruby(breeding group).

5. I suppose it depends on how much longer Matz lives(he is nearly a record -breaker now...). What is his health status at present?

12-01-2008

My understanding is that the new great ape facility in Frankfurt will be only for one gorilla family. And I have never heard any rumors about splitting the family. Since Rebecca has a less then one year old baby from Matze, she couldn`t be introduced to another male anyway. And I wouldn`t rule out the possibility that she will get pregnant by him again, although I`d prefer to put her on the pill since she and Matze are both overrepresented in the zoo population and this will get a lot worse in the next years.

12-01-2008

Its possible Frankfurt will face a similar situation as Chessington's gorilla group. Their old male Kumba(not as old as Matz) suffered a couple of mild strokes and was actually ousted(rejected) from the group by the females. He is now kept with one female (his original mate 'Baffia') and they will soon be receiving(or may already have done so) a new younger male for the rest of the group- 'Damisi' from Paignton- he's a Matz/Rebecca son....

I suspect Frankfurt may make some changes after the gorillas have moved into Pongoland....it depends how things go with Matz.

12-01-2008

Being a record-holder I doubt if he will last more than a few years at the most. Surely when Matze dies a problem will arise if Rebecca has a newborn by him. Both him and Rebecca are over-represented (as Yassa observed correctly).

I will go to Frankfurt tomorrow, but I am not sure if I will make it to the zoo. I will try and get hold of the design plan. But if I recollect what I saw last time around (October-wise) each ape species has only 1 exhibit. The other species are colobus monkey and a Cercopithecus-species.

I probably will end up in the Senckenberg Museum and the Palmengarten. I will fly on Monday to Oman (for some serious sandstorms .... and gazelle/oryx watching).

12-01-2008

The monkey species planned for the great ape house were guereza, drill and diana monkey. Guerezas and diana monkeys are already in Frankfurt, drills will come from Hannover. The plan was to mix all three species with eahc other and gorillas! It is possible however that this plan has changed in the last months since the old director was kicked out. If I remember correctly the number of monkey species has been reduced to 2, not sure which one. I think the drills are coming to Frankfurt for sure, so it could be either dianas or guerezas. The new house can`t be far from completation now so we will hopefully learn more soon.

12-01-2008

I think reintroduction of zoo gorillas will never become a serious conservation tool. It is more to welfare of individual animals. And even then it is discussable that gorilla in forest is really happier than in Europe. Human wouldn't.

Zoos however can enormously help wild gorillas by raising money for conservation. Given how small wages are in Africa and most African reserves exist only on paper, I think even little money raised by small zoo can make a difference. Even a small money-collecting bin would do for a start.

12-01-2008

That is a valid point. It might be better if these two were prevented from breeding together anymore i.e. put Rebecca on the pill.

A problem for Frankfurt?
21-01-2008

I'm wondering now what the authorities at Frankfurt plan for 'Matz' when the new 'Bonoboland' exhibit opens later this year. Will they transfer the whole group as it is now? Will Matz (now 50!) be able to cope okay with such a dramatic change at his advanced age.?

Might it be kinder to create a new group in Bonoboland and keep him with e.g. the two old girls(Jule and Dorret) in his familiar environment? But again- they probably want to remove the old house totally once the animals have moved. Could they retain just the Gorilla wing for a while? Comments?

22-01-2008

That won't be possible, since they will demolish the old Ape House as soon as the animals move into the new Borgoriwald (formerly known as Bonoboland). Then the outdoor enclosures will be built partly where the old Ape House is. Here is a link to the building plan. The yellow part is the new house, and the black line with red lines inside indicates the old house.

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I am Toddy, the zoo-enthusiast from Denmark!
Different zoos visited: 77
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22-01-2008

I've resurrected these questions because they were never answered, and I happened to be at Cologne Zoo yesterday

Cologne currently have 2.4 gorillas:

m Kim (b 1976 in the wild, arrived in 1977)
f Kibi (b 1977 in the wild, arrived in 1977)
f Gina (b 1982 at Rotterdam, arrived in 1984)
f N'Datwa (b 1989 at Apenheul, arrived in 1998)
f N'Gambe (b 2000 at Cologne, N'Datwa x Kim)
m Kito (b 2004 at Cologne, Gina x Kim)

The breeding male Kim has also fathered other offspring no longer in the collection. They are:

f Undi (b 1990, Ulca x Kim, moved to Bristol 1998)
f Gana (b 1997, Gina x Kim, moved to Munster 2004)
m Berni (b 2002, Gina x Kim, died from an infection in 2003)

As has previously been mentioned, Ulca moved to Lisbon in 2006

When I was watching the gorillas yesterday, Kim and Kito were spending a lot of time together in the smaller of the two linked indoor dens (in fact, Kim was clearly tiring of Kito's attention-seeking antics but being very patient too). The females were mostly resting and browsing in the larger room, where Kito later joined them.

22-01-2008

Kim has one more son, Kibo (mother Gina), born 1990. Kibo is now the breeding silverback in Stuttgart and has a couple of kids there. Undi who was moved to Bristol died there a few years ago.

Kim is unfortunately not breeding with Kibi and he wasn`t interested in Ulca any longer neither, so she was moved to Lisboa. In my opinion Kibi should be moved too but it seems the zoo has different plans.

23-01-2008

I don't think Kibi has ever bred- she and Kim are a typical 'platonic' pair- they arrived at Cologne with a few days of each other and grew up together- so he's not interested in her. She is genetically valuable as a wild caught animal and could still possibly breed if moved elsewhere to a new male....