Surely moving to another collection is better for some animals but things such as age, health and their quality of life has to be taken into consideration surely? In the case of an elderly animal with health issues maybe pts is the best option but in the case of a young animal who could have a long and good quality life in another collection then i personally think a move is necessary. But there is a discussion in the Copenhagen Zoo thread about Marius
Ekstra Bladet - Svensk zoo vil have Marius - nu bliver han skudt Requires translating but this one shows that other zoo's have offered to take him and Copenhagen Zoo would rather kill him. Danish zoo to kill 'surplus' young giraffe and feed him to the lions - Europe - World - The Independent Another article which also mentions that this zoo have killed surplus lions, tigers, bears and zebra before.
I hope some zoo steps forward and can save the poor guy. He doesnt deserve to die because of the zoos mistake. And the fact that they want to do a public necropsy (whats the point you put a bullet in his head, cause of death solved) makes me think he exists for less then honourable reasons. I hate accusing any zoo of doing something shady but a pubilcy necropsy on a healthy giraffe they killed for no sound reason sounds like a publicity stunt. And dont almost all zoos bury or burn the bodies of their deceased animals instead of feeding them to others. Is this their way of getting free meat while having had the vistor bonus of a baby giraffe for 18 months? I mean its one of the largest land animals on the planet... thats a lot of free meat. And a zoo that reguarly kills animals simply because they are surplus to their needs instead of preventing the birth in the first place should be suspect. I just hope someone can come through for poor Marius.
Yorkshire Wildlife Park have been in contact with the zoo offering Marius a home within their bachelor herd and many of us on facebook are behind them every step of the way. Even offering to donate towards the travel costs for him. The zoo in Holland was turned down due to not being on the breeding programme but he can't breed if they shoot him so why not let him go to a different zoo to LIVE? YWP already have one of Copenhagen's male giraffe's from a previous year that they no longer wanted... I have a really bad feeling about this zoo and feel that something needs to change. It may turn out for the best in Marius' case (which i sincerely hope) but they apparently have a history of simply killing surplus animals. Surely they should not be allowed to breed animals if they are cashing in on 'babies' and then killing them?? As far as i know YWP haven't received any response from Copenhagen although one Danish news report states that they have declined the offer.
Firstly, people are getting emotive because it's a giraffe. I'm sure they wouldn't be getting their knickers in such a twist if we were talking about a deer. Also, natural breeding is incredibly important for the phyiscal, social and mental welfare of animals like ungulates. I think it is entirely appropriate that Copenhagen Zoo allow this to happen and feed surplus animals to their carnivores. It's their usual practice and it's good for the ungulates and good for the carnivores too. I get sentimental sometimes but ultimately this is a scientific, educational conservation-focused institution, not some kind of donkey sanctuary. From the EAZA magazine when Copenhagen hosted their conference:
The fact that the zoo kills a number of animals every year which don't make the papers kind of insinuates that it isn't following the norm surely as it is allowing breeding, advertising the babies and then killing them when they are old enough to breed? The zoo kills 700-800 deer a year according to their facebook which i for one did not know about but i don't think that's appropriate either :/ I completely understand if it had to happen etc but i personally think that there are answers to this that don't involve killing the animal. Won't they continue to allow their giraffes to breed? Resulting in surely yet more animals to kill? I will admit i am sentimental and upset regarding this situatiln in-particular as i do love giraffes BUT if i thought it was justified then i would be able to see their side of it, as it is i am failing to do so.
Breeding is a vital part of the life cycle of herd animals like many ungulates. It is what they do. Unlike species like elephants, orang utans or pandas, they often have offspring annually. This cycle is so central to their existence that to deny it would be far more cruel than to cull the surplus - often male - animals. If they don't breed, females can suffer serious gynaelogical disorders. The breeding and raising of young is in itself important enrichment. As for feeding, what do you think carnivores eat otherwise? Vegeburgers? This way they get a variety of food sources and again, this is itself enriching for them. And the zoo know that the animals fed have been treated humanely and know what they have been fed. It's by far the best solution in my opinion.
See i can completely see your point there and thank you for explaining it. However, how come many zoo's/park's/collections keep male bachelor herds effectively? I am not completely stupid - although i detect from your sarcasm you may disagree. But i was not under the impression that zoo's killed the animals they keep to feed the carnivores. Obviously if an animal dies naturally etc then i can fully understand it. If all zoo's ran by this etiquette all the time then where would that leave the captive population of animals other than the main carnivores who get these animals killed and fed to them?
I don't think you are stupid at all, I just find it interesting that people get upset about a giraffe but not a deer, or more to the point, a cow, a sheep or a pig.
I think the difference being that we are educated in the mindset of pigs, sheep, cows, chickens all being bred for food purposes. There was an outcry when people found out horse's were being killed for food... Deer are a tough one, see i personally would still be upset if it were a deer in this situation but i realise that i don't speak for everybody. I think its all about how people perceive the animal ... Giraffes are as a whole perceived as gentle and majestic therefore most people would find it hard to justify killing one at all let alone the fact that this one is only young and was bred with the knowledge that he would be surplus to requirement in the near future.
And isn't it a pointless waste of animals that can be wonderful museum specimens?! Save Marius' skeleton and skin from being cut to pieces!
@EM, the lean meat will be used to feed some of the carnivores in Koebnhavn Zoo and the skeleton and intestine tract and a few other anatomical parts are part and parcel of a long term University study on giraffe morphology and function in order to better understand the needs of giraffe in captivity. So, there is a purpose to all this. I personally will not be part to a internet / petition crucifixion of a respected zoo director far and beyond (EAZA, ISIS-ZIMS, WAZA) and its wonderful zoo. I find this whole internet charade distasteful and not what I may expect from forumsters writing on Zoochat at all. I wish people would sit back and contemplate more, get / be better informed and (attempt to) acquire the full facts before making any judgements - in this day and age a challenge with loads of 3-quarter of a cent papers + a commercialized lot in outlets like the Daily Mail and Bild Zeitung -. I also get the distinct feeling the message that my esteemed friend has put out on behalf of Koebnhavn Zoo has been filtered for sensationalist material, misinterpreted willfully and simply badly worded in translation. Some of the accusations having been flung at are simply preposterous ("they do not care" et cetera).
This is a Koebenhavn Zoo news thread, there is little evidence of news items here lately. It is certainly not a tantrum throwing one that has basically as subject matter a B/W polarizing animal welfarists themed internet petition that is an excellent vehicle for the angry mob PETA/Zoo Check lot. I have made an official complaint to the moderators of the day about this. I wish for the good of the forum we restrain ourselves here and keep this thread as just that … a Koebenhavn Zoo news forum. If others wish to take this euthanasia debate any further, you are welcome to that, but please do so in a complete separate thread! Thank you ..
I have now moved subsequent discussion of the case into the following dedicated thread created last night, which I have renamed to a more general title now that saving the animal in question is no longer possible: http://www.zoochat.com/115/marius-giraffe-copenhagen-354769/ Please continue any discussions there, rather than having the same debate happening in multiple locations - I may create a second thread for general discussion of the policy at work in zoos as a whole if there is demand for it.
What is the current situation with Tasmanian devils? Its possible I might be visiting this summer, would love to tick this species off my to see list!
I don't think they've ever been off-show, except for of course in quarantine. There were a couple of months back in 2012 during which Copenhagen had no Tasmanian devils because all the original ones had died, and some new ones had not yet arrived from Australia, but that's all.
