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New zoo design where animals can't see you

Discussion in 'General Zoo Discussion' started by nanoboy, 30 Jul 2014.

  1. nanoboy

    nanoboy Well-Known Member

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  2. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    it's not really "in the works", it is just a concept. And it seems to be based largely on the fanciful idea that so long as the animals can't see people then they won't suffer "the undeniable psychological and physical toll that captivity takes on animals" as the journalist puts it.
     
  3. Zooplantman

    Zooplantman Well-Known Member

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    oh the horror!
     
  4. Zooplantman

    Zooplantman Well-Known Member

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    It is rather astounding how that New York Times article about the animal behaviorist who works with zoos has been spun NOT as zoos working to care for animals, but rather as animals suffer horribly in zoos.

    I would appreciate the concept that a sentient being who expresses behavioral issues and would benefit from professional help is clearly in an abusive environment and would better be relocated to a more supportive and sustaining environment.... but then 70% of our citizens and most corporate workers would have to be relocated to live free ranging on farms

    Yet the anti-zoo folk don't seem to make that connection.... odd blindness to their fellow humans
     
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  5. lamna

    lamna Well-Known Member

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    Of course this will do nothing to conceal the smell of humans, nor the sounds of them, which I think are more likely to disturb animals.

    The only animals I think have a real chance of being fooled are primates, especially the great apes. Which is strange since they have always seemed to me either unconcerned by people or interested in interacting with them.

    It all looks very swish, but usually that means in 15 years it will look terrible and in 30 we'll be wondering why anyone approved this abomination in the first place. 21st century Tectons.
     
  6. Jurek7

    Jurek7 Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Sometimes people who know nothing about animals produce strangest visions. Riding bikes covered with mirrors so animals can't see you...

    It is absurd from so many angles... What person would like to ride a bike like that? Second - as people already pointed, animals are easily accustomed to people, and most operate by smell. And seeing a 'rival' in the mirror is likely to introduce much bigger stress...

    It reminds me of one previous idea from Argentina to build a zoo in a gigantic vertical tower...

    ...Maybe introduce an idea that hardcore animal lovers going to the zoo should roll in mud, to put themselves in a perspective of animal, and to mask the smell? ;)
     
  7. BeardsleyZooFan

    BeardsleyZooFan Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I wonder if the people who thought of this thought about what would be more stressful to an animal: exposure to visitors (these animals are exposed to humans through their keepers, it's not like they've never seen a human), or a line of mysterious giant marbles going over their enclosures on a daily basis? ;)
     
  8. elefante

    elefante Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I like the idea of being less invasive in a zoo to allow animals to express more natural behaviors. However, the mirrors are comical. How do they figure animals wouldn't be able to notice mirrored bikes and mirrored gondolas moving around. How serious is this concept anyway?
     
  9. TheMightyOrca

    TheMightyOrca Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Yeah, I do like the idea of zoos where animals would notice less human presence and, like you said, get to express more natural behaviors, but some of these suggestions are weird and don't make a lot of sense. Like, a lot of animals rely heavily on smell and hearing. Even if they can't see a human, they might be able to hear or smell it.
     
  10. dean

    dean Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    As such a lot of animals even large pachyderms such as rhinos can have poor eyesight the other senses come into play much more than people realize,so as has been said, visibility isn't as important regarding zoo visitors.
    Their behavior is though, fence rattling and glass banging etc, etc. As zooman said, it sounds like another attempt by A rights groups to put the doubt into peoples minds that captivity is bad, most of the comments posted on the site I have seen are pro zoo though, which is a good thing.
     
  11. Zooplantman

    Zooplantman Well-Known Member

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    The interesting side of this story is that the zoo supports the concept, at least in part. This is not a situation where some urban planning student got a clever idea for a student project:
    "According to Givskud Zoo‘s director Richard Østerballe, the park’s transformation will benefit greatly from BIG’s fresh approach to design–one that has been characterized by the integration of nature and natural elements into cutting-edge, innovative architecture. "
     
  12. Jurek7

    Jurek7 Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Some exhibits are designed for visitors to be less visible. Many gorilla exhibits are surrounded by bushes. So when you look from gorillas perspective, they are surrounded by greenery, with just one small pocket where people are visible.

    Cat house in Prague has completely dark visitror area, a bit set off from glass, and with animal sounds played around. It has cool 'jungle' atmosphere, and people are almost un-noticeable for the cats.

    Overall, zoos might care more, but rather about noise, especially from roads outside, restaurants, carousels etc.

    But, of course, lots of hoofed animals and monkeys in zoos don't fear people but will approach them and hope for tidbits.
     
  13. temp

    temp Well-Known Member

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    The title of this thread is based on misleading reporting. The article reminds me of some earlier incomplete/inaccurate reporting where the journalist relied on few or only one source because he couldn't understand the native language. A summary based on Danish news reports from the leadership of the zoo:

    1. Except for the circular entrance building there will be an attempt of hiding buildings from view with vegetation, building into hills, etc. This is primarily for the human visitors, not animals. This seems to be the main discussion point of this thread but it is based entirely on bad reporting: The only one who apparently thinks it truly may fool the animals (beyond perhaps a few highly visually oriented species) is the journalist. Let's compare the articles: First A Redesigned Zoo Where Humans Stay Hidden Could Be Better For Animals which supposedly ("According to...") is based on this article. The second article says plenty about hiding buildings and providing good homes for animals. They don't say anything about the animals being fooled by hidden humans. The writer of the first article also links to the architects project site and a Danish article. They don't claim to be able to fool the animals by hiding the humans either. I've not seen anyone associated with the project making the hidden humans fooling animals claim!
    2. There will be a new big entrance building. The circular thing shown on the first and second photo in the article. I don't care much about entrance buildings and I imagine most people on this forum feel the same. Who visits a zoo for the entrance building anyway?
    3. Much of the current safari park is only clearly visible by car and zoo train/bus. In the new plans more will be visible by walking or possibly through pedal powered vehicles. The mirror bubble things on the illustration are unlikely to ever go further than the mind of the architect. Land vehicles (e.g. 4 wheel family bicycles), a boat and perhaps small pedal/electric powered cable cars may go ahead.
    4. Current exhibits in the zoo will largely remain in extensively updated and in some cases expanded versions. Animals will be moved around when new exhibits open to follow the overall geographic scope. The most obvious differences compared to current exhibits will be access and that they will make greater attempts of removing all man-made things from view. Fortunately this also means that the square concrete block exhibit visible on one of the illustrations has next to no chance of appearing. That illustration was mainly made to show an approximate representation of the entrance building. The things around it are more or less random filler. The pandas on the same illustration are only marginally more likely to ever appear than the square concrete block exhibit.
    5. The zoo plans on doubling its current size to about 120 hectares (300 acre). They already own the areas set aside for expansion.
    6. This is very much an early overall concept and detailed plans for the individual exhibits generally have not been completed. The entrance and 2-3 new exhibits are expected to be part of phase one. This is supposed to be ready for 2019. Let's see how much of the architects concept will be followed. The director of the zoo has already said that he likes the fresh approach/ideas but some things will have to be changed.

    If they follow the overall concept they could end up as the zoo that has taken the (old) idea of hiding barriers and other man-made structures to the most extreme. All in all I don't think there are any completely new zoo ideas in the concept plan. Except perhaps the extensive use of pedal powered visitor transport and the idea that the entrance building's roof will functions as a lookout point over the central zoo. Most Danes would probably enjoy the pedal power idea because Denmark is already a nation of cyclists.

    I'm surprised that American news sites use space on reporting on European zoo news in this very early phase. It would be slightly easier to understand if they had begun any of the contructions or at least had finished plans. When new exhibits actually open in American zoos you often can't find anything except on small local news sites.
     
    Last edited: 1 Aug 2014
  14. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    there are quite a few versions of this news item popping up about the place, like this one.
    In zoo of future, animals roam free with no cages
     
  15. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    and Zootopia by BIG architects redesigns Denmark’s Givskud Zoo into a cage-free habitat.