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ThylacineAlive

Wild-Type Budgerigar

Wild-Type Budgerigar
ThylacineAlive, 10 Jan 2019
    • ThylacineAlive
    • BushBudgie
      @ThylacineAlive are you sure? They saud to mee "from a breeder" not "from a Zoo". The Cologne Zoo never had many offspring and more birds died than were bred. In feeling half of Europe claims that they have Budgies of Cologne... is there any reliable evidence?
    • ThylacineAlive
      @BushBudgie Koln bred them quite a bit judging from the ZTL records. Only three zoos are listed as receiving birds from Cologne: Loro Parque, Frankfurt, and Hamerton via Bristol. I would imagine the zoos' own record keeping would be reliable enough evidence...

      ~Thylo
    • BushBudgie
      @ThylacineAlive No, the breeding in Cologne went very badly. Few animals were bred and many died. Only a couple of males went to Frankfurt, which were later brought back. An employee of the Cologne Zoo told me yesterday that in Zims it says that the animals from Bristol come from private. So not from a zoo.
    • ThylacineAlive
      @BushBudgie I don't know what to tell you. I asked someone before and I was told they came from Cologne. Another person told me that they may have had animals come in direct from Australia as well to supplement their flock. Either way, the initial answer to your question is Hamerton received their birds from Bristol Zoo.

      ~Thylo
    • BushBudgie
      @ThylacineAlive If Bristol had got animals from Australia, it would have been marked at Zims, etc. An import/export from Australia does not simply take place without marking..... and the Cologne line is no longer pure, as normal Budgies were crossed there. The only pure line still seems to be that of the Prague Zoo, which at that time birds got from the import of Cologne. Everyone else is probably trying to decorate themselves with foreign feathers ;)
    • ThylacineAlive
      @BushBudgie I mean... you have no proof of that and your information changes from post to post but go on I guess...

      Again, I don't know exactly where Bristol got their birds. I just told you what information was relayed to me from people who I know are very familiar with both Hamerton and Bristol. Your initial post says Hamerton themselves says they originated from a German zoo, that lines up with Cologne distributing stock to other zoos. If ZIMS says otherwise then it says otherwise, but you don't have access to it. Even if they are from private, it does not mean Hamerton, Bristol, Cologne, or any other zoo with wild-type Budgerigar are "trying to decorate themselves with foreign feathers". Private could mean a private keeper in Germany or elsewhere in Europe who keeps wild-type birds, it could also mean a private keeper in Australia, though I would agree it'd probably specify they came from Australia if that were the case. Either way, I don't know and you don't know. What I do know is these zoos probably wouldn't be going out of their way to get more expensive and harder to keep birds if they aren't true wild-type. This is the best I can tell you.

      ~Thylo
    • BushBudgie
      @ThylacineAlive Yes, Hamerton told me German zoo. However, they are from Bristol. Bristol told me about a German breeder. That is, the animals really come from a German breeder - also zims says that the animals come from private. Finally, it should be said that these animals do not come from an import and are only similar to the wild form. Because anyone who deals only partially with Budgies knows that the wild form (except the few import birds) does not exist outside Australia. The green birds - and they may not be divisive - are always flawed in some form. Be it the too big spots, the wrong claw color or even the weight. Therefore, the term "wild form" would not be correct here. The same is true of so many species. But you can't expect this knowledge from people who don't have detailed knowledge of this species.
    • TeaLovingDave
      @BushBudgie Well, let's break all of this down and demonstrate just how wrong you really are :p you see, some of us genuinely *do* have connections willing to provide them information from ZIMS charting the precise origin of the wild-form Budgerigar population in Europe, and don't merely make stuff up off the top of their head......

      The original import of wild Budgerigar into Cologne comprised 4,8 individuals which came directly from Melbourne Zoo in 2000. Contrary to your claims that "the Cologne Zoo never had many offspring and more birds died than were bred" and that "the Cologne line is no longer pure, as normal Budgies were crossed there", I am informed that ZIMS shows clearly that a) a total of 287 individuals have been present at Cologne since the original import and have lived long enough to be registered on ZIMS and b) no imports of domestic Budgerigar stock have come into Cologne in the intervening 20 years.

      ZIMS also shows that Cologne has sent stock born at the collection to the following collections; Plzen, Jihlava, Loro Parque, Frankfurt (on two separate occasions, not the single occasion you claim) and Hagenbeck, with further Cologne-bred stock being sent to a number of German private collections. One of these breeders sent their Cologne-bred stock on to Bristol in 2016, these being the same birds which moved to Hamerton a year later.

      As a side-note, your claim that Prague's stock came from the same import as the Cologne animals is also wrong, as they arrived directly from Melbourne in 2020 ;) a full twenty years after the Cologne import.

      So to summarise: Hamerton's birds were born in Cologne, but have passed through a private collection and Bristol Zoo before reaching the collection, and are pure wild-type stock descended from a single import from Melbourne Zoo in 2000, which has resulted in dozens of pure birds spread through public and private collections in Europe.

      In other words - you are entirely wrong to claim that Cologne Zoo has never had much breeding success with the species, entirely wrong to claim that their stock was crossed with domestic bloodlines, entirely wrong to claim that the Cologne stock "do not come from an import and are only similar to the wild form", entirely wrong to claim that there is no evidence anywhere other than Frankfurt received stock from Cologne, and entirely wrong to claim Prague received stock at the same time as Cologne ;)

      Think I have covered all the bases there, yeah?
    • ThylacineAlive
      @TeaLovingDave But you can't expect this knowledge from people who don't have detailed knowledge of this species...

      ~Thylo
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  • Category:
    Hamerton Zoo Park
    Uploaded By:
    ThylacineAlive
    Date:
    10 Jan 2019
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