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Tomek

Scimitar-babbler (Pomatorhinus spp.) ID please

Scimitar-babbler (Pomatorhinus spp.) ID please
Tomek, 12 Aug 2013
    • TeaLovingDave
      This is Rusty-cheeked scimitar babbler (Pomatorhinus erythrogenys) - I had trouble identifying this bird myself in June but that was my ultimate conclusion.
    • Tomek
      I have seen and photographed this individual also during my last visit there (in June 2011). Using the 12. volume "Handbook of the Birds of the World," I'm more inclined to think that this is another species: Black-streaked Scimitar-babbler (Pomatorhinus gravivox).
    • TeaLovingDave
      Problem is that half the photos labelled online as Black-streaked are ones of this individual which you took in 2011 :p so somewhat self-fufilling. The two species are closely related, so either is a decent guess I think.
    • Dicerorhinus
      Tomek is correct; this is a Black-streaked scimitar-babbler. Dave, it's often better to use a monograph or field guide to identify a species if you're unsure, random photos on the internet can't always be trusted!
    • TeaLovingDave
      That relies on one being rich enough to *have* the specialist fieldguides! Not all of us are as lucky as you ;)

      That said, having checked my records it was actually the above site used by Tomek to identify it which I used to make my identification, as the Amazon World animal looked most like their image of P.swinhoei, which I had inaccurately believed was a subspecies of P.erythrogenys. Looking at the image again, I still think Grey-sided Scimitar Babbler (to go with the more up-to-date classification of swinhoei as a species in its own right) fits the animal in question better.

      Grey-sided: Oriental Bird Club Image Database : Grey-sided Scimitar Babbler » Pomatorhinus swinhoei

      Black-streaked: Oriental Bird Club Image Database : Black-streaked Scimitar Babbler » Pomatorhinus gravivox
    • Dicerorhinus
      Fair enough! but to be honest fieldguides are not terribly expensive and I expect are probably much cheaper used?

      Anyway I stand by my opinion that this is individual is a Black-streaked scimitar-babbler. Take for example the black bar that extends from the base of the bill in the bird above which is absent in the species you suggest.

      edit: It appears P.swinhoei was described by Aramand David (who also described the Giant panda) so im not sure what you refer to with the up-to-date classification. Full disclosure: I did search when when I noticed "David" was credited to make sure there were not two if them roaming the hillsides of China.
    • TeaLovingDave
      Scimitar-babblers underwent a big split in 2006 per Collar - P. erythrocnemis and P.erythrogenys were split into P. erythrocnemis, P. gravivox, P. mcclellandi, P. swinhoei and P.erythrogenys, with P.swinhoei having been variously assigned as a subspecies of erythrocnemis and erythrogenys previous to this. Although I had been aware of the split to P. erythrocnemis when I initially identified this individual, I didn't realise P. swinhoei had been included in the Collar (2006) study until this discussion tonight.

      As such, I would imagine that the original description by Aramand David was as a subspecies of one of these two, much like how the official description of the Sumatran Orangutan (Pongo abelii) is listed as Lesson, 1827 despite the fact it was only recognised as a species-level taxon in 1996.
    • Dicerorhinus
      Yeah, I wasn't sure if there had been any recent evaluation of the genus but it appears there has. Were you genuinely aware of that? Good stuff if so!

      Haha :) I'm aware of how author citation in zoological nomenclature works but thanks for taking the time to explain it! I appreciate the distraction/procrastination this evening.. the paper must have provided some good morphological data did it reinforce your opinion of the species id?

      Perhaps vogelcommando, FBird or anyone else with a sound knowledge could offer an opinion? :)
    • condor
      definitely a black-streaked scimitar-babbler, P. gravivox. Rufescent flanks, broad black mallar, strong black spotting on chest, and relatively limited contrast between mantle and nape exclude all others.

      Armand David originally described gravivox as a species. Until the early-mid 1900s, relatively few authorities used subspecies, meaning that virtually everything was described as a species before that. It was only in reviews during the 1900s that subspecies became widely recognized and some earlier described "species" were changed to subspecies status. The exact same thing happened to the Sumatran orangutan, which originally was described as a species by René Primevère Lesson, then changed to subspecies in later reviews where subspecies were recognized, only to be returned to species status by recent authorities.

      Regardless, taxon authority (such as Lesson for the Sumatran orang) never changes as long as a the taxon remains in use (regardless of level; species vs. subspecies).
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  • Category:
    Amazon World Zoo Park
    Uploaded By:
    Tomek
    Date:
    12 Aug 2013
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    Comment Count:
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