Join our zoo community

ZooChat Challenge Europe 2017

Discussion in 'Quizzes, Competitions & Games' started by Vision, 31 Dec 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Page 12 of 17
  1. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    16 May 2010
    Posts:
    14,831
    Location:
    Wilds of Northumberland
    Which, I presume, is why he said the following:

    Either way, this seems to suggest that the overall scenario may well be the one I noted above; that the Cotswold population comprised hybrids which were mostly one species (hybridus) but contained a small amount of heritage from a second (geoffroyi) - given the fact the female mentioned above as being closest to the geoffroyi phenotype is about seven years too young to have been one of the originally imported animals, then I imagine it is possible she is a 50/50 hybrid and that her progeny have increasing amounts of hybridus blood.

    Of course, without knowing how many individuals of each species actually arrived at Cotswold Wildlife Park in 1969, and the sex ratio involved, this can only ever be speculation.
     
    TeaLovingDave, 17 Aug 2017
    #221
    pipaluk likes this.
  2. Water Dragon

    Water Dragon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    10 Mar 2017
    Posts:
    529
    Location:
    England
    Lakeland Wildlife Oasis
    24) White-Tufted Ear Marmoset
     
    Water Dragon, 17 Aug 2017
    #222
  3. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    18 Mar 2014
    Posts:
    2,486
    Location:
    London
    After a stroke of luck....

    Ouwehands Dierenpark

    108) Sulawesi tarsier (Tarsius tarsier)
     
    ShonenJake13, 17 Aug 2017
    #223
    Maguari and Mehdi like this.
  4. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    13 Jun 2007
    Posts:
    23,440
    Location:
    New Zealand
    does anyone know where in Sulawesi these originated from? There are quite a number of tarsiers in Sulawesi which all look very similar. T. tarsier is restricted to Selayar Island, so I would think it unlikely to be that one.
     
    Chlidonias, 17 Aug 2017
    #224
  5. Mehdi

    Mehdi Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    5 May 2016
    Posts:
    545
    Location:
    Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    The only thing I can tell is that both individuals in question (one of them died) originated from RSCC, but I don't know from where in Sulawesi these latter imported them, sorry.
     
    Mehdi, 17 Aug 2017
    #225
  6. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    18 Mar 2014
    Posts:
    2,486
    Location:
    London
    Indeed, they are down to just one. If anyone knows which species is kept in Singapore they are intending on possibly bringing some in from them at some point.
     
    ShonenJake13, 17 Aug 2017
    #226
  7. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    13 Jun 2007
    Posts:
    23,440
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Singapore's are also listed as "Spectral Tarsier Tarsius tarsier" but they very likely aren't. The problem is that you formerly had a lumped "species" (variously T. tarsier or T. spectrum, depending on author - eventually tarsier replaced spectrum as the accepted name), which at one point included every tarsier on Sulawesi and its surrounding islands. After a few earlier splits (pumilus, dentata [dianae], lariang) there was left a remainder with a very disjunct population and these were the "Tarsius tarsier". The species on the northern islands were split off first (tumpara, sangirensis, pelengensis) and then you were left with the mainland group which had populations in the north of the island and the south of the island but not in the middle of the island. The true T. tarsier (i.e. those of the type) are now restricted to Selayar Island (south of Makassar). In the south of the Sulawesi mainland there is T. fuscus, and in the north there are three further species (wallacei, supriatnai, spectrumgurskyae). This almost certainly isn't the end of the Sulawesi taxonomic tangle, but what it does mean is that for any captive tarsiers from the region the specific origin needs to be known (or very detailed investigations of their morphology and genetics) before they can be claimed as one or the other.
     
    Chlidonias, 17 Aug 2017
    #227
  8. Vision

    Vision Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    29 Aug 2015
    Posts:
    1,091
    Location:
    Antwerp, Belgium
    Just got back from my trip, so had a chance to finally read the discussion on a big screen over multiple tabs to try and make sense of it. :p

    However, I'm not quite sure how to handle it. Has the spider monkey issue been resolved? The explanation that seemed most likely to me was that Reaseheath and Monkey World each have 1 pure A.geoffroyi and a few hybrids, but as I've never seen any of their individuals in person I find it hard to make a judgment on a rather confusing discussion.

    About the tarsier: I'm very keen on knowing more about both Ouwehands' and Singapore's species and their origins! Until we know anything for sure, I suppose it's best to just call them T.tarsier sensu lato.

    And for my new primates:
    Zoologická zahrada Jihlava, 07/08/2017:
    93) Campbell's monkey, Cercopithecus campbelli
    94) Lowe's monkey, Cercopithecus lowei
    95) Graell's tamarin, Leontocebus graellsi

    Zoologická zahrada Brno, 08/08/2017:
    96) Olive baboon, Papio anubis

    Zoologická zahrada Olomouc, 10/08/2017:
    97) Japanese macaque, Macaca fuscata

    Zoologická zahrada Ostrava, 11/08/2017:
    98) Diana monkey, Cercopithecus diana

    Zoologická zahrada Praha, 12/08/2017:
    99) Moholi bushbaby, Galago moholi

    Zoologická zahrada Ústí nad Labem, 13/08/2017:
    100) Silvered leaf monkey, Trachypithecus cristatus
    101) Bonnet macaque, Macaca radiata
    102) Sykes' monkey, Cercopithecus albogularis

    ZOO Dvůr Králové, 14/08/2017:
    103) Drill, Mandrillus leucophaeus

    :D
     
    Vision, 18 Aug 2017
    #228
    Mehdi and ShonenJake13 like this.
  9. TeaLovingDave

    TeaLovingDave Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    16 May 2010
    Posts:
    14,831
    Location:
    Wilds of Northumberland
    Off-topic, but probably the most important question arising from this visit - do they, or do they not, still hold the Serow?
     
    TeaLovingDave, 18 Aug 2017
    #229
  10. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    18 Mar 2014
    Posts:
    2,486
    Location:
    London
    A couple I forgot about:

    Stichting AAP Almere

    109) Sykes' monkey (Cercopithecus albogularis)
    110) Red-tailed monkey (Cercopithecus ascanius)
     
    ShonenJake13, 18 Aug 2017
    #230
  11. Vision

    Vision Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    29 Aug 2015
    Posts:
    1,091
    Location:
    Antwerp, Belgium
    A very tricky question. We did not see them anywhere, but there are plenty places they might be:
    1) Near the entrance in a hilly wooded exhibit in which we saw muntjacs. This is an option because this is where the serow is indicated on the large maps in the zoo itself; however, they are not signed there on the printed maps that are handed out, so our theory is that it used to be kept there but isn't any more.
    2) In an exhibit with himalayan griffon vultures and nilgais. After not seeing the serows, we decided to ask a keeper (whom we told the english name which she didn't know, so then we followed that up with a picture to which she immediately reacted "Ah, serau!"), who called people and asked another keeper walking by and eventually pointed at that exhibit on our map.
    3) In a semi-off-show hoofstock pen near the zebras and lechwes, as that is where they were last seen (in May of this year).
     
    Vision, 18 Aug 2017
    #231
    KevinVar likes this.
  12. GerbenElzinga

    GerbenElzinga Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18 Dec 2014
    Posts:
    53
    Location:
    Groningen, Netherlands
    Time to step up my game...

    Jihlava
    28. Bearded emperor tamarin (Saguinus imperator subgrisescens)
    29. Black crested mangabey (Lophocebus aterrimus)
    30. Black lemur (Eulemur macaco)
    31. Goeldi's monkey(Callimico goeldii)
    32. Campbell's guenon (Cercopithecus campbelli)
    33. Garnett's bushbaby (Otolemur garnettii)
    34. Graells's tamarin (Leontocebus graellsi)
    35. Gray mouse lemur (Microcebus murinus)
    36. King Colobus (Colobus polykomos)
    37. Lowe's monkey (Cercopithecus lowei)
    48. Red-cheeked gibbon (Nomascus gabriellae)
    39. Senegal bushbaby (Galago senegalensis)
    40. Silvery marmoset (Mico argentatus)
    41. Spix's moustached tamarin (Saguinus mystax)

    Brno
    42. Common chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes)
    43. Gelada (Theropithecus gelada)
    44. Olive baboon (Papio anubis)

    Zlin
    45. Moloch gibbon (Hylobates moloch)
    46. Siamang (Symphalangus syndactylus)

    Olomouc
    47. Japanese macaque (Macaca fuscata)
    48. Patas monkey (Erythrocebus patas)

    Ostrava
    49. Crowned lemur (Eulemur coronatus)
    50. Diana monkey (Cercopithecus Diana)
    51. Mongoose lemur (Eulemur mongoz)

    Praha
    52. Barbary macaque (Macaca sylvanus)
    53. Mexican spider monkey (Ateles geoffroyi vellerosus)
    54. Moholi bushbaby (Galago moholi)
    55. Northern talapoin monkey (Miopithecus ogouensis)
    56. Sumatran orangutan (Pongo abelii)
    57. Sunda pig-tailed macaque (Macaca nemestrina)

    Plzen
    58. Collared lemur (Eulemur collaris)
    59. De Brazza's monkey (Cercopithecus neglectus)
    60. Red-mantled saddle-back tamarin (Leontocebus lagonotus)
    61. Red-bellied lemur (Eulemur rubriventer)
    62. Southern Bolivian Night monkey (Aotus azarae boliviensis)
    63. Tanzanian Black-and-white colobus (Colobus angolensis palliates)
    64. Western Fat-tailed dwarf lemur (Cheirogaleus medius)
    65. White-fronted lemur (Eulemur albifrons)

    Usti
    66. Bonnet macaque (Macaca radiata)
    67. Mandrill (Mandrillus sphinx)
    68. Mt Kilimanjaro guereza (Colobus guereza caudatus)
    69. Northern White-cheeked Gibbon (Nomascus leucogenys)
    70. Silvered leaf-monkey (Trachypithecus cristatus)
    71. Sykes' monkey (Cercopithecus albogularis)

    Decin
    72. Crested black macaque (Macaca nigra)

    Dvur Kralove
    73. Drill (Mandrillus leucophaeus)

    I believe that's it...
     
    GerbenElzinga, 18 Aug 2017
    #232
  13. GerbenElzinga

    GerbenElzinga Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18 Dec 2014
    Posts:
    53
    Location:
    Groningen, Netherlands
    Oops, that wasn't it.

    Zlin
    74. Pied tamarin (Saguinus bicolor)

    Prague
    75. Malayan slow loris (Nycticebus coucang)
     
    GerbenElzinga, 19 Aug 2017
    #233
  14. MagpieGoose

    MagpieGoose Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    29 Mar 2015
    Posts:
    1,299
    Location:
    UK
    Wow!, 84 days since I last saw a new species of primate for this challenge. I couldn't find the Red-handed Tamarin at Beale Park, so finally adding some to my list. I have removed the Weeper Capuchin following doubt over him and also I have been informed that the Vervet Monkeys are actually Grivets.

    Five Sisters Zoo Park
    70) Red-bellied Tamarin (Saguinus labiatus)
    71) Common Brown Lemur (Eulemur fuluvus)
     
    MagpieGoose, 19 Aug 2017
    #234
  15. MagpieGoose

    MagpieGoose Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    29 Mar 2015
    Posts:
    1,299
    Location:
    UK
    RZSS Edinburgh Zoo
    72) Barbary Macaque (Macaca sylvanus)
    73) Golden-cheeked Gibbon (Nomascus gabriellae)
     
    MagpieGoose, 20 Aug 2017
    #235
  16. FunkyGibbon

    FunkyGibbon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    11 Jan 2015
    Posts:
    2,937
    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    if you saw it as a member of the public surely you could have revealed it before? Or was it offshow but visible?
     
    FunkyGibbon, 22 Aug 2017
    #236
  17. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

    Joined:
    13 Jun 2007
    Posts:
    23,440
    Location:
    New Zealand
    I have no stake in the challenge, but my understanding is that the "pure" animal at Reaseheath seems to be based on probability (although @mrcriss seems to be referring to actual records - I wasn't clear on that), and the "pure" animal at Monkey World is based on appearance. I find it odd that the "pure" male at Monkey World - although it does look good for being a pure animal - does not resemble the "pure" female at Reaseheath which is supposed to be the mother.

    My inclination would be to disallow all of the spider monkeys at those two establishments on the basis of uncertainty.

    I would agree with that - and it's not like there are any other tarsiers in Europe to complicate the challenge!
     
    Chlidonias, 22 Aug 2017
    #237
  18. Vision

    Vision Well-Known Member 5+ year member

    Joined:
    29 Aug 2015
    Posts:
    1,091
    Location:
    Antwerp, Belgium
    KevinVar and I saw the two males from the visitor path while they were off-show, but back then it was not yet made public that the collection had them so we didn't want to reveal something in case they'd rather keep it secret.

    Ah okay, I thought it was more certain. In that case, I agree with your inclination to disallow them - unless DNA tests are done to prove anything before the end of the year.

    The zoo world can be an unpredictable one! When I typed up "in some cases like Eulemur rufus/rufifrons, Nycticebus coucang, Tarsius tarsier, Lagothrix lagotricha, Cebus capucinus, Chlorocebus aethiops and Semnopithecus entellus, I suggest we follow Zootierliste's lead and list them all as the sensu lato species" in the first post of this thread, I added the tarsier more for completion's sake than because I actually believed anyone would see it!
     
    Vision, 22 Aug 2017
    #238
  19. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

    Joined:
    18 Mar 2014
    Posts:
    2,486
    Location:
    London
    So I am on 109 and @zoogiraffe is on 78 then. No worries! I'm sure I'll see an actual geoffroyi before the year is out :)

    You and me both Vision! I had no idea I would be lucky enough to see him when I went to Ouwehands :D
     
    ShonenJake13, 22 Aug 2017
    #239
    zoogiraffe and Vision like this.
  20. Joshua

    Joshua Member

    Joined:
    19 May 2017
    Posts:
    13
    Location:
    The Netherlands, Amersfoort
    82 Common mona monkey Cercopithecus mona Zoo Osnabrück
     
    Joshua, 22 Aug 2017
    #240
Page 12 of 17
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.