ZooChat Cup Match #41: Berlin Zoo (2) vs Cabarceno

Both zoos got here via ectotherms: Berlin with a crushing 24-0 win over a desperately unlucky Stuttgart, which would have beaten nearly any other zoo in the field on the category. Cabarceno won what was, in relative terms, a battle of the minnows against Edinburgh, 15-7.

Now we have one that’s genuinely interesting: carnivores.

Tomorrow: Antwerp vs Dvur Kralove.

 

This just made my day! This is a clear win for Carbaceno in my view! Berlin may be (slightly) up in numbers but is not on par when it comes down to how you get to encounter and see the animals in Santander. So if you want to see carnivores, you have to travel to Spain in this match.

Carbacenos has the most spectacular enclosures I have ever seen for brown bears, hyenas, tigers, african wild dogs, lynxes etc. and even an ok display of sea lions too (at least compared to Berlin!)

So my vote goes to Cabarceno Natural Park!

 

I haven't been to Cabarceno and many of the enclosure pictures in the gallery look extremely impressive, but are they really as great as they first appear? (genuine question, not rhetorical. I'd like to hear from someone who has visited Cabarceno)

A number of them look to have fairly sterile lawn-like animal areas (the lion and jaguar enclosures for example look to just be large lawns), the bear enclosure looks extremely overcrowded, and there have to be points off for holding non-subspecific (white) tigers.

I've voted Berlin for now, but I'm definitely swayable.

 

Not sure on what I'm voting yet, but I think I might be swayed for Cabarceno depending on what gets posted by the people who have visited. Does Cabarceno have any small carnivores?

I swear, if Antwerp draws ungulates a second time though...

 

First off, you should visit Carbaceno (just do not go there during the 'semana santa' (easter) I did this once by accident and it was hell on earth, because it was just so crowded and you basically will never get from a to be without being stuck in a major traffic jam). So, not all is perfect but most is impressive. The 'zoo' as is is in a former mine and now a nature reservation. As a whole it is 21 time larger than the Berlin zoo. So what may look crowded on a picture (as the bears and elephants do at feeding times) is in reality not. They do however have large groups of certain animals.

You cannot walk through the zoo, you have to have a car that brings you to certain parts / enclosures - usually to a parking lot from where you can walk towards the enclosures (you could drive by too, but that would really be a waste of the visit, I believe)

There are grassy parts of enclosures, but they are by no means lawn-y, they are simply a plateau-y area surrounded by cliffy areas. There is however one thing that is largely missing at Carbaceno, and that is trees.

None of the enclosures are by any means sterile (well the gorilla outdoors somehow is relatively borig, which I would equate to sterile) they are just mainly huge which was for me at first kind of unusual to experience and any visitor may run the risk of just not seeing any animal. This is (or at least was during my visits with the tigers) I guess a downside when you are having large enclosures with caves and other places to hide.

I understand that many consider Berlin as the No.1 zoo in Europe and I kind of expect it win, but realistically is should not. Because for carnivores Santander is the better choice!

 

By this do you mean you're not allowed to walk it, or that it's simply too far for most people?

 

There are 12 miles of pathways.

 

The bear enclosure is the same size as the Berlin zoo, so has a much lower bear density than the Berlin bear enclosures. They might have 40 bears, but that still gives every bear close to 10.000 square meters...

 

That's doable for me, unless there's a lot of elevation shifts as well?

 

Berlin has a nice collection and as this category now also includes small carnivores, voting Berlin becomes more appealing, especially because of their Malagasy carnivores. And though some of the enclosures are nice, such as the Californian sea lion enclosure and the lions outdoors. The rest of the carnivore house is nothing special though nor are the bear enclosures (though a huge improvement when compared to 10 years ago). Cabarceno is just unique in a positive way.

Then they will be out , just as when they survive Dvur Kralove and get Ungulates in the next round playing Berlin or Cabarceno

 

Yep, elevation is one way of putting it Have you not looked at the photos?

 

Oh you can walk all you want on the roads too if you like, you should not though and be advised you are in the mountains. I did see people with bikes though.

 

This looks set to be a really great match! I have no strong feelings either way.

 

@Dassie rat where's the species lists? Finally a match-up where I'd find them useful and you're nowhere to be seen

 

As it is extremely close, I've decided to vote without experiencing one of them - there's only three previous matches that I have participated in.

 

I think in this case it may be significant , as I've done a quick scan of ZTL and Berlin has nearly twice as many species whilst Cabarceno is very poor on smaller species .

 

Here's a quick list of carnivorans using the ZTL 'expert search'

Berlin Zoo:
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) African wild dog (No Subspecific status) (Lycaon pictus)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Arabian sand cat (Felis margarita harrisoni)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Asian small-clawed otter (Oriental small-clawed otter) (Aonyx cinerea (Syn.: Amblyonyx cinereus))
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Asiatic Black Bear (no subspecies-status) (Ursus thibetanus (Syn.: Selenarctos thibetanus))
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Barbary lion (Panthera leo leo)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) California sea lion (Zalophus californianus)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Cape fur seal (Arctocephalus pusillus pusillus)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Dwarf mongoose (No Subspecific status) (Helogale parvula)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Eastern Atlantic harbour seal (Phoca vitulina vitulina)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Eastern Ring-tailed vontsira (Eastern Ring-tailed mongoose) (Galidia elegans elegans)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Fennec fox (Vulpes zerda (Syn.: Fennecus zerda))
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Giant panda (Great panda) (Bamboo bear) (Ailuropoda melanoleuca)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Indian sloth bear (Melursus ursinus ursinus)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Jaguar (No Subspecific status) (Panthera onca)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Jaguarundi (No Subspecific status) (Herpailurus yagouaroundi (Syn.: Puma yagouaroundi))
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Kinkajou (Honey bear) (No Subspecific status) (Potos flavus (Syn.: Potus flavus))
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Lion (No subspecies-status) (Panthera leo)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Meerkat (Suricata suricatta)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) North Persian Leopard (Iranian Leopard) (Panthera pardus saxicolor)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Northern fur seal (Callorhinus ursinus)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Northern Narrow-striped boky (Narrow-striped mongoose) (Mungotictis decemlineata decemlineata)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Ocelot (No Subspecific status) (Leopardus pardalis (Syn.: Felis pardalis))
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Polar bear (White bear) (Ursus maritimus (Syn.: Thalarctos maritimus))
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) South American coati (Brown-nosed coati) (Ring-tailed coati) (No Subspecific status) (Nasua nasua (Syn.: Nasua rufa))
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Sri Lankan rusty-spotted cat (Prionailurus rubiginosus phillipsi)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Tayra (Irara) (Eira barbara)
Berlin (Zoologischer Garten) Wolf (no subspecific status) (incl. "Arctic wolf") (Canis lupus (misid.: Canis lupus arctos) (misid.: Canis lupus hudsonicus))

Cabarceno:
Cabarceno (Parque de la Naturaleza) African wild dog (No Subspecific status) (Lycaon pictus)
Cabarceno (Parque de la Naturaleza) California sea lion (Zalophus californianus)
Cabarceno (Parque de la Naturaleza) European brown bear (Ursus arctos arctos)
Cabarceno (Parque de la Naturaleza) Iberian badger* (Meles meles marianensis*)
Cabarceno (Parque de la Naturaleza) Iberian wolf (Canis lupus signatus)
Cabarceno (Parque de la Naturaleza) Jaguar (No Subspecific status) (Panthera onca)
Cabarceno (Parque de la Naturaleza) Lion (No subspecies-status) (Panthera leo)
Cabarceno (Parque de la Naturaleza) Meerkat (Suricata suricatta)
Cabarceno (Parque de la Naturaleza) Northern lynx (Lynx lynx lynx)
Cabarceno (Parque de la Naturaleza) South African cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus jubatus)
Cabarceno (Parque de la Naturaleza) South American sea lion (Otaria byronia (Syn.: Otaria flavescens))
Cabarceno (Parque de la Naturaleza) Spotted hyena (Crocuta crocuta)
Cabarceno (Parque de la Naturaleza) Tiger (no subspecies-status) (Panthera tigris)

 

Hello Funky Gibbon and Pipaluk

Here they are:
Both: Meerkat, lion (Berlin has Barbary lion as well as non subspecific) Jaguar, African wild dog

Berlin
Dwarf mongoose
Eastern ring-tailed vontsira, northern narrow-striped boky
Arabian sand cat, jaguarundi, ocelot, Sri Lankan rusty-spotted cat, North Persian leopard
Fennec fox, wolf,
Asiatic black, polar and Indian sloth bear
Asian small-clawed otter
Northern and Cape fur seals, Eastern Atlantic harbour seal
Ring-tailed coati, kinkajou

Cabarceno
Spotted hyena
Northern lynx, South African cheetah, tiger
Iberian wolf
European brown bear
California and South American sea lions
Iberian badger

Berlin wins this won on variety of families. While Carbarceno has a hyena. Berlin has euplelids and procyonids. It also has a larger collection of cats, dogs and bears. The latter may sway the opinion of Beccasunbear

 

Thanks for the list Dassie rat. Giant Panda appears to be missing for Berlin though

 

The Berlin zoo list here combines Tierpark and Zoo.