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ZooChat Cup Semi-final #1: Prague (1) vs Chester (5)

Discussion in 'ZooChat Cup' started by CGSwans, 9 May 2018.

?

Miscellaneous mammals and primates

Poll closed 12 May 2018.
  1. Chester

    29.7%
  2. Prague

    70.3%
  1. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Is this the one where Prague is finally challenged? Or even toppled? It hasn't lost more than one vote in any contest so far - including its 33-1 romp over Doue-la-Fontaine - but, with all due respect to Artis, Colchester, Bristol and Doue-la-Fontaine, none of them are Chester. The latter dispensed with giant-killer Planckendael, 23-6.

    This time? Miscellaneous mammals and primates, for a spot in the final.
     
  2. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Primates is certainly not the strength of Prague, with hardly any memorable enclosures bar the Moloch... Based on pictures Chester seems far ahead in that category. For the other mammals it gets more competitive I feel...
     
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  3. Canihelpyou?

    Canihelpyou? Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Im going to go with chester zoo.
     
  4. DesertRhino150

    DesertRhino150 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Rather than going through and listing every species (I'm sure someone else will do that), I will simply put down the numbers of different groups at both zoos (going from Zootierliste).

    Miscellaneous Mammals
    Aardvark
    1 at Chester; 1 at Prague

    Hyrax
    1 at Chester; 1 at Prague

    Tenrec
    2 at Chester; 1 at Prague

    Sengi
    1 at Chester; 2 at Prague

    Insectivore
    0 at Chester; 2 at Prague

    Bat
    2 at Chester; 2 at Prague

    Xenartha
    2 at Chester; 2 at Prague

    Tree shrew
    1 at Chester; 1 at Prague

    Rodent
    8 at Chester; 32 at Prague

    Marsupial
    2 at Chester; 9 at Prague

    Monotreme
    0 at Chester; 1 at Prague

    Primates
    Lemurs
    5 at Chester; 4 at Prague

    Other prosimians (Lorises, galagos)

    0 at Chester; 4 at Prague

    New World monkeys
    9 at Chester; 3 at Prague

    Old World monkeys
    3 at Chester; 4 at Prague

    Lesser apes
    2 at Chester; 1 at Prague

    Great apes
    3 at Chester; 2 at Prague

    While Chester wins on primates rather convincingly, for miscellaneous mammals it depends on whether the superior number of species in the collection is exciting enough. I'm not especially fussed whether a zoo has three different species of spiny mice, or five kinds of porcupine. That, coupled with the quality of enclosures for the species they have, means I will vote for Chester.
     
  5. Ned

    Ned Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Wondering through Prague's Africa house with Mechow's mole-rat, ratel, four species of galago and those just for starters, takes some beating.
     
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  6. Vision

    Vision Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Aren't we forgetting the macaque enclosure? The enclosure for Barbary macaques (with the useage of actual tall rock cliffs) is something very exciting and easily beats most other macaque/baboon enclosures I've seen...

    In small mammals there's absolutely no doubt that Prague would win (even discounting the rodents in both collections, Prague wins this match-up 22 vs 12, with at least 2 of Chester's 12 still being off-show), and in primates the collection is quite close (18 vs 22) but more variable on Prague's side, so my vote goes to Prague.
     
    Last edited: 9 May 2018
  7. Charlie Simmomds

    Charlie Simmomds Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    In defence of Chester’s misc mammal variety it should be significant that several species at the zoo are the only in the uk the main being pademelons. And while some aren’t yet on show they will be soon. As well as this there enclosures are decent. The bat cave is large and immersive, the sloth exhibit, recently expanded is large and unique for British zoos I can’t think of another outdoor sloth enclosure in the uk.
     
  8. Vision

    Vision Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    All good points, but we're not comparing Chester to British zoos, we're comparing Chester to Prague ;)

    Are there any pictures of Chester's bat cave in the gallery? I don't think I've seen any.
     
    Last edited: 9 May 2018
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  9. Rafiaan

    Rafiaan Active Member

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    I can, it's in Colchester Zoo. And while Chester is probably the number one zoo in England, it's collection of miscellaneous mammals simply isn't as impressive as Prague's one. If you consider dusky pademelons, which are by the way also held at Exmoor Zoo according to Zootierliste, as the main rarity of Chester, then Prague has to win. Prague Zoo has some species in this category that are quite a bit rarer than the pademelons, and a larger number of species too. And primates is probably not Prague's strongest category, but their collection is actually quite impressive.
     
  10. kiang

    kiang Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    There are pademelons now at Exmoor zoo, so no longer an exclusive.
     
  11. Fallax

    Fallax Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Voting for Chester because all of their exhibits are great. From Monsoon Forest to Fruit Bat Forest they are all around spectacular. I have never seen a better exhibit for bats then that at Chester and also the monkey house is really great despite being a bit overgrown. The 3 species of great ape have wonderful enclosures and Miniature Monkeys is quite an interesting experience. Also the aye-ayes mixed with jumping rats is a unique combination. Chester has quite a variety in other mammals. Capybara and Giant Anteater have a spacious paddock to roam, the sloth exhibit is really innovative with the ropes leading outside. The new enclosures on Islands while yet to be filled are great for the Prevost's Squirrels, Pademelons and Tree Kangaroos (at least, they look it), Porcupines and Aardvarks are simple but work with the theming. Hyrax have lots of rocks and the Tree Shrew exhibit is also designed very well.
     
  12. LaughingDove

    LaughingDove Well-Known Member

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    I would say that Chester wins on primates overall, but I wouldn't call it a landslide for that category. Prague has a number of rarities and a superior collection in particular categories (lorises and galagos). If it was just primates though, I would certainly vote for Chester.

    When it comes to 'miscellaneous mammals' however, I would say that Prague wins by miles. A few of the exhibits are on the small side, especially in the nocturnal corridor of the Indonesia House (although I remember hearing that the situation there has improved since I visited in 2015?) but most of the enclosures are pretty good and the 'Africa Up Close' building with that really nicely done rocky area for various small African animals outside is really very nice indeed. Chester certainly does well in this category when compared to other UK zoos, but on a Europe-wide scale and compared to Prague, it's not much above average.

    Overall when taking both categories into account, I'm going for Prague.
     
  13. Charlie Simmomds

    Charlie Simmomds Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Fair point that you make.
    welp looks like I can’t use the exclusive argument at all, can’t even do it with tree kangaroo, I’m sure somewhere has lowland streaked tenrec in the uk even if it’s just a college.
     
  14. Dassie rat

    Dassie rat Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Primates

    Both: Ring-tailed lemur; moloch gibbon; Sumatran orang-utan

    Chester
    White-belted black-and-white ruffed, Lac Alaotra bamboo and black lemurs
    Aye-aye
    Eastern pygmy marmoset; golden-headed lion, bearded emperor, pied and cotton-top tamarins; yellow-breasted capuchin
    White-faced saki
    Black-and-gold howler monkey; Colombian black spider monkey
    Crested black and lion-tailed macaques; mandrill
    Lar gibbon
    Bornean orang-utan; common chimpanzee (including western)

    Prague
    Grey mouse lemur
    White-belted black-and-white ruffed and white-fronted lemurs
    Malayan slow loris
    Garnett's, Senegal and Moholi bushbabies
    Spix's moustached tamarin; common squirrel monkey
    Mexican spider monkey
    Sunda pig-tailed and Barbary macaques; northern talapoin; mantled Colobus
    Western lowland gorilla

    Chester has an aye-aye and saki. Prague has a mouse lemur, loris and bushbabies, so wins on family diversity.

    Miscellaneous mammals

    Both: Lesser Hedgehog tenrec; round-eared sengi; aardvark; Belanger's tree-shrew; giant jumping rat; Asia Minor spiny mouse; northern Luzon giant cloud rat; Cape porcupine; Rodriguez flying fox

    Chester
    Dusky pademelon; Goodfellow’s tree kangaroo
    Lowland streaked tenrec
    Cape hyrax
    Linnaeus' two-toed sloth
    Naked mole-rat; capybara; Azara's agouti;Sumatran Prevost's squirrel
    Seba's short-tailed bat

    Prague
    New Guinea short-beaked echidna
    Western woylie
    New Guinea ground cuscus; sugar glider; red kangaroo; eastern wallaroo; Tasmanian red-necked, parma and swamp wallabies; white-striped Dorcopsis
    Rufous sengi
    Yellow-spotted rock hyrax
    Southern three-banded armadillo
    Mechow's mole-rat; bushy-tailed gerbil;Egyptian Sundevall’s jird; forest giant pouched rat; Dusky Egyptian, African spiny mouse; South African pygmy mouse; acacia rat; Barbary and typical striped grass mice; mesic four-striped and Neumann’s grass rat; southern Luzon giant and Panay bushy-tailed cloud rats; East African springhare; African brush-tailed, Indian crested, Philippine and Cape porcupines; gundi; North American porcupine; Chacoan mara; Desmarest's hutia; woodchuck; black-tailed prairie dog; European and Cape ground squirrels; Smith's bush squirrel; Kellen’s African dormouse
    Four-toed hedgehog
    Pygmy white-toothed shrew
    Egyptian fruit bat

    Prague has an echidna, a rat kangaroo, an armadillo, a hedgehog and a shrew and has representatives of all the mammal orders at Chester so wins this easily.

    A win for Prague
     
  15. sooty mangabey

    sooty mangabey Well-Known Member

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    As has been pointed out above, by @LaughingDove , the Africa Up Close house is truly brilliant - imagainative, original, endlessly interesting.

    It has been argued that Chester’s primate exhibits trump Prague’s. I’m not so sure. Chester’s chimp island is excellent, but the oast house seems a bit dated, a bit dingy, a bit small. New orangs seem pretty good; Realm of Red Ape is functional and unattractive. Monkey House is great - unless you want to see the monkeys. Ditto the islands for lemurs and callitrichids.

    Meanwhile, in the Czech Republic, the Gorilla exhibit is wholly fine (apart from being at danger of flooding); the Barbary Macaque exhibit is one of Europe’s best; the Colobus enclosure is a key part of a wonderful string of exhibits; Talapoins in the African House.... Orangs possibly a little unexciting; Pig-tailed Macaques a little disappointing (no outdoor enclosure).
     
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  16. Fallax

    Fallax Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Can anyone provide an arguement against Chester exhibit wise? I do think Prague beats Chester on species but in terms of exhibtry I prefer Chester, now I may be biased as I have never visited Prague but nothing seems to be pulling me too Prague other than species variety.
     
  17. sooty mangabey

    sooty mangabey Well-Known Member

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    I think I did just this, in the most immediately before yours...

    Clearly all of the zoos under discussion here are tremendous - Chester most certainly included - so it's not so much an argument against them, as a suggestion that, in most areas, Prague are stronger...
     
  18. CGSwans

    CGSwans Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Chester has the single best exhibit for a 'miscellaneous mammal' in Europe, in the form of the bat house. It also has several primate exhibits that achieve, in stunning form, the one thing I railed about throughout my trip: the importance of bringing indoor exhibits up to a more-than-barely-functional display standard.

    This is one where the greater depth of Prague's collection should not out-do the sheer brilliance and innovation of Chester's exhibitry.
     
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  19. sooty mangabey

    sooty mangabey Well-Known Member

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    I realise I'm in the minority, probably, but I don't really 'get' Chester's Bat House.

    Architecturally, it is unattractive - a functional barn-like building that has no sense of wonder about its exterior.

    The preliminary exhibits have never seemed to work - I'm not quite sure that they have ever been anything other than an afterthought.

    Presenting bats in the dark may seem an obvious move, but it is very hard to see the animals and, in my experience, the display only furthers the sense of bats being something a bit creepy, a bit weird, a bit strange.

    Bat exhibits which are not in reverse-lighting - such as those at Bristol and Drusillas - not only enable a much better view to be had of the bats, but also enable those bats to benefit from outdoor access.

    I'm no real fan of Drusillas - my local zoo - but I would suggest that their bat exhibit, in its own way, and to its own scale, is superior to that at Chester.
     
  20. Fallax

    Fallax Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    The exterior has never really meant to mean anything, it is mainly hidden by bushes. Also I have never had trouble in seeing the animals, the large amount of flying space really does allow to see them better too, also they can sometimes get really close in the tunnel area. The bats are also great to see against the lighted backdrop as the hang from the branches, it looks spectacular.
     
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