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9 species of mammals, 9 species of birds, 9 species of reptiles. Your choice?

Discussion in 'Fantasy Zoos' started by Nikola Chavkosk, 17 Feb 2016.

  1. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member

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    Wrong again and again-oh, silly me...

    Well, believe it or not, I do disagree with you.
    For the factors mentioned, I wouldn’t recommend the husbandry of meerkats to absolute beginners in exotic animal husbandry (which most of the posters appear to be).
    And purposefully handraising wild animals to imprint them on humans just for idle entertainment is NOT in accordance with the principles of a modern zoo.
     
  2. SealPup

    SealPup Well-Known Member

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    Zoos in Japan do use animals like short claws for interaction with the public. Whilst there might be a problem removing individuals from the breeding pool for said purpose, it isn't inherently unethical from where I'm standing - just an extension of the principle that television documentaries can never replace 3D encointers with live animals in zoos.

    Besides I don't exactly agree with the principles of modern zoos: or at least not how they go about them. Conservation priorities seem flawed - amphibians for example are neglected, so are things like arthropods. Education has actually been dumbed down since the early 20th century as well: the backwards 19th century Bird House and Cat House attempted to teach systematics, whilst the enlightened modern geographic layouts of zoos lump Siberia and Japan with Indonesia and India instead of Europe. (Biogeographers will get what I mean.) On inspection the educational goals of a modern zoo are often implemented half hearted else not sincerely at all. And which is better for primates, mesh or glass? Is trendy immersion really for animal welfare, or is it human selfishness?

    My favourite times at zoos have been in smaller collections owned by entbusiasts. Not run by faceless commitees trying to be modern zoos.
     
  3. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member

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    I have witnessed in person some of the negative effects handraising can have on both animals and people. Among others, animals automutilating themselves to get the attention of humans, repeated infanticide/neglect of offspring, increased intraspecific aggression or males ranging from small flying foxes to adult giraffe bulls that make working for the staff difficult, up to being a real lethal danger for the staff.
    Individual wild animals can be used for presentations without having to rely on imprinted animals; cue “medical training“. Purposefully preventing a wild animal to live according to its natural socialisation is unethical in my pov, no matter whether it takes place in Japan, the UK or Madagascar.
    Zoos have their flaws, as have all human-made aspects of life. Nevertheless, I consider Hediger’s teachings and principles for a modern zoo worth pursuing and see no contradiction in enthusiasts doing exactly that. Purposeful handraising wild animals, however, is a different matter than zoogeographical mistakes.
     
    Last edited: 18 Jan 2017
  4. littlewallaby

    littlewallaby Active Member

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    I honestly think that it depends on the animal doesn't it? Cetaceans for one tend to fair very well when they have close relationships with their caretakers right? (Obviously the relationships are monitored and carefully balanced these days). On the other hand don't keepers try to avoid forming close bonds with parrots that are kept in groups?
     
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  5. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member

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    Nobody is handraising cetacea on purpose to make them tamer. In parrots, this is, unfortunately, quite common.
     
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  6. Coelacanth18

    Coelacanth18 Well-Known Member

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    @Batto, as I understand snakes to be a specific interest (specialty?) of yours (one that I share with you), how do you think your viewpoint extends to reptiles? The socialization for reptiles is obviously very different than with mammals, with usually minimal or no parental care and limited social interaction, so do exotic pet reptiles or reptiles that are conditioned to be tame fall under that same ethical umbrella of denying natural behavior?
     
  7. Batto

    Batto Well-Known Member

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    “Reptiles“ is such an ambiguos term, including widely different species such as blind snakes, hinged tortoises or komodo dragons. The more we learn about each of them, the more we will have to change our attitude and evaluation of their various individual physiological and psychological capabilities, including their social behaviour. I’ve observed in my personal work with them how allegedly “dumb“ species can surprise you. I don’t think that a “Kasper Hauser“ effect due to deliberate handraising for the purpose of idle entertainment (afaik, yet unheard of in regard to reptiles) would be as apparent in most reptiles as in highly social mammals or birds; however, I have indeed met some cases of “asocial“ reptiles that changed their behaviour due to increased interaction with humans early on-and not always in a positive way.
     
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  8. Mr. Zootycoon

    Mr. Zootycoon Well-Known Member

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    Meerkats are not among the easiest non-domestic mammals to keep. They aren't harder to keep that most mongoose species, althouh with the right diet and enclosure designs, I think dwarf mongooses are the easiest (of mongooses) and I've taking care of a whole range of different mongoose (and other non-domestic) species for years. Skunks, raccoon dogs and even tenrecs are much easier.

    Hand-rearing is not something I really like. I've worked with hand-reared mongooses, raccoons, skunks, coypus, foxes etc. They just need so much personal attention. In some case, it just didn't work (raccoon, arctic fox), but luckely we were able to re-socialise some of the unfortunate critters.
     
    Last edited: 20 Jan 2017
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  9. animalszoos

    animalszoos Well-Known Member

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    If I was to be very unrealistic, then this is my list:
    MAMMALS:
    - Pygmy hog
    - Hispaniolan solenodon
    - Mediterranean monk seal
    - Saiga antelope
    - Galapagos sea lion
    - Asiatic cheetah
    - Bornean ferret badger
    - Javan leopard
    - Sumatran rhino
    BIRDS:
    - Lesser adjutant
    - Jambu fruit dove
    - Bornean peacock pheasant
    - Congo peafowl
    - Takahe
    - Kakapo
    - Northern Island brown kiwi
    - Puerto rico parrot
    - Hawaiian hawk
    REPTILES:
    - Tuatara
    - Blue iguana
    - St. Lucia racer snake
    - Leatherback sea turtle
    - Sea snake
    - Lava lizard
    - Marine iguana
    - Fiji banded iguana
    - Black Spiny-tailed Iguana
     
  10. Emanuel Theodorus

    Emanuel Theodorus Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Tangerang, Indonesia
    Mammals:
    1. African Elephant
    2. Nile Hippopotamus
    3. Giant Panda
    4. Bengal Tiger
    5. African Lion
    6. Reticulated Giraffe
    7. Black Rhinoceros
    8. Grizzly Bear
    9. Grant's Zebra
    Aves:
    1. Ostrich
    2. Hyacinth Macaw
    3. Emperor Penguin
    4. Greater Flamingo
    5. Birds of Paradise
    6. Cockatiel
    7. Common Swan (White)
    8. Bali Myna
    9. Southern Cassowary
    Reptiles:
    1. Nile Crocodile
    2. Komodo Dragon
    3. Black Mamba
    4. Green Anaconda
    5. King Cobra
    6. American Alligator
    7. Frilled Lizard
    8. Galapagos Giant Tortoise
    9. Mozambique Spitting Cobra
     
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  11. The Speeding Carnotaurus

    The Speeding Carnotaurus Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    USA
    Mammals
    1. Pacific Walrus
    2. Pacific White Sided Dolphin
    3. Beluga
    4. Stellar Sea Lion
    5. Harbor Seal
    6. Sea Otter
    7. Commersons Dolphin
    8. Manatee
    9. North American River Otter
    Reptiles
    1. American Alligator
    2. Black and White Tegu
    3. Burmese Python
    4. Green Sea Turtle
    5. Marine Iguana
    6. Alligator Snapping Turtle
    7. Sea Snake
    8. Basilisk
    9. American Crocodile
    Birds
    1. Humboldt Penguin
    2. Galapagos Penguin
    3. Tufted Puffin
    4. Bald Eagle
    5. Great Horned Owl
    6. African Fish Eagle
    7. Arctic Tern
    8. Incan Tern
    9. Grey Gull
     
    Last edited: 21 Mar 2018
  12. Kakapo

    Kakapo Well-Known Member

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    With 100% of your mammals aquatic, 6 of 9 reptiles aquatic and one more very linked to wetlands, and 6 of 9 birds aquatic and two more linked to wetlands, I think that you must have an overhelming preference for aquariums :p
     
  13. The Speeding Carnotaurus

    The Speeding Carnotaurus Well-Known Member

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    Maybe ;)
    Also I felt it would be easier making a good aquarium with the limitations than a good zoo.
     
  14. Jake

    Jake Well-Known Member

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    Ooh, hard one

    1. Stoats because they are so cool to look at and they are very active
    2. Capybara, they can swim in my dam ;)
    3. Otters ,they are energetic
    4. Marmosets, my family love them
    5. Tigers, any zoo needs one


    Birds
    1. Ostrich
    2. Macaw
    3. Owl
    4. Finchs
    5. Geese/ducks


    Reptiles
    1. Leopard gecko
    2. Rhino iguana
    3. Brown caiman
    4. Sulcata tortoise
    5. Indian star tortoise
     
    Last edited: 19 Dec 2018
  15. Kakapo

    Kakapo Well-Known Member

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    You must add 4 more species of each group.
     
  16. Jake

    Jake Well-Known Member

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    Those are the only ones that I could think of at that time.
     
  17. BillEel

    BillEel Well-Known Member

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    I’ll bite. Arranged into three (very loose) themed areas consisting essentially of a pond with some satellite enclosures and then two hot-houses, again with external satellite enclosures. I’ve gone for species based on a quick browse through the pets section of UK Classifieds, Birdtrader and Exotic Pets UK to get a sense of what is currently available. That said there’s a few reptile species that were out-of-stock and I couldn’t find a source for treeshrews but I have a particular soft-spot for them so I made an exception.

    Wetlands
    Raccoon dog
    Asian palm civet
    Bennet’s wallaby
    Spotted whistling duck
    Orinoco goose
    White ibis

    Rainforest
    Azara’s agouti
    Pygmy marmoset
    Northern treeshrew
    Sugar glider
    Masked lovebird
    Jenday conure
    Palawan peacock-pheasant
    Red-eyed crocodile skink
    Red-footed tortoise
    Helmeted iguana
    Brown anole
    Rainbow boa

    Desert
    Dwarf mongoose
    Fennec fox
    Zebra finch
    Diamond dove
    Greater rhea
    Egyptian uromastyx
    Giant tegu
    Sulcata tortoise
    Carpet python
     
  18. Hipporex

    Hipporex Well-Known Member

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    I suppose I'll take a crack at this one.

    By Taxonomy
    Avian Dinosaurs (i.e. Birds)
    1. African grey parrot (Psittacus erithacus)
    2. Barn owl (Tyto alba)
    3. Black-necked swan (Cygnus melancoryphus)
    4. Blue-and-gold macaw (Ara ararauna)
    5. Budgerigar (Melopsittacus undulatus)
    6. Common ostrich (Struthio camelus)
    7. Emu (Dromaius novaehollandiae)
    8. Keel-billed toucan (Ramphastos sulfuratus)
    9. Peregrine falcon (Falco peregrinus)
    Mammals
    1. Bennett's wallaby (Macropus rufogriseus)
    2. Capybara (Hydrochoerus hydrochaeris)
    3. Fennec fox (Vulpes zerda)
    4. Grant's zebra (Equus quagga boehmi)
    5. Kinkajou (Potos flavus)
    6. Ring-tailed lemur (Lemur catta)
    7. Serval (Leptailurus serval)
    8. Southern tamandua (Tamandua tetradactyla)
    9. Sugar glider (Petaurus breviceps)
    Reptiles
    1. African spurred tortoise (Geochelone sulcata)
    2. Argentine black-and-white tegu (Paleosuchus trigonatus)
    3. California kingsnake (Lampropeltis californiae)
    4. Emerald tree monitor (Varanus prasinus)
    5. Jackson's chameleon (Trioceros jacksonii)
    6. Mata-mata (Chelus fimbriatus)
    7. Rosy boa (Lichanura trivirgata)
    8. Smooth-fronted caiman (Paleosuchus trigonatus)
    9. Woma python (Aspidites ramsayi)

    By Zone
    Africa
    1. African grey parrot (Psittacus erithacus)
    2. African spurred tortoise (Geochelone sulcata)
    3. Common ostrich (Struthio camelus)
    4. Fennec fox (Vulpes zerda)
    5. Grant's zebra (Equus quagga boehmi)
    6. Ring-tailed lemur (Lemur catta)
    7. Serval (Leptailurus serval)
    Birds of Prey
    1. Barn owl (Tyto alba)
    2. Peregrine falcon (Falco peregrinus)
    Latin America
    1. Argentine black-and-white tegu (Paleosuchus trigonatus)
    2. Black-necked swan (Cygnus melancoryphus)
    3. Blue-and-gold macaw (Ara ararauna)
    4. Capybara (Hydrochoerus hydrochaeris)
    5. Keel-billed toucan (Ramphastos sulfuratus)
    6. Kinkajou (Potos flavus)
    7. Southern tamandua (Tamandua tetradactyla)
    8. Smooth-fronted caiman (Paleosuchus trigonatus)
    Oceania
    1. Bennett's wallaby (Macropus rufogriseus)
    2. Budgerigar (Melopsittacus undulatus)
    3. Emu (Dromaius novaehollandiae)
    4. Sugar glider (Petaurus breviceps) - Outdoor exhibit, during good weather
    Small Animal House
    1. California kingsnake (Lampropeltis californiae)
    2. Emerald tree monitor (Varanus prasinus)
    3. Jackson's chameleon (Trioceros jacksonii)
    4. Mata-mata (Chelus fimbriatus)
    5. Rosy boa (Lichanura trivirgata)
    6. Sugar glider (Petaurus breviceps) - Indoor exhibit, during bad weather
    7. Woma python (Aspidites ramsayi)

    Also Merry Christmas!
     
    Last edited: 25 Dec 2018
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  19. Neil chace

    Neil chace Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Massachusetts
    If I had to choose 9 of each groups-
    Mammals-
    Amur tiger
    Black and gold howler monkey
    Clouded leopard
    Giant otter
    Red ruffed lemur
    Rodrigues fruit bat
    Visayan warty pig
    Capybara
    Maned wolf
    Birds-
    Crested oropendola
    Palawan peacock peasant
    Guira cuckoo
    Mindadao bleeding heart dove
    Great blue turaco
    Bald eagle
    Spangled cotinga
    White faced whistling duck
    Green aracari
    Reptiles-
    Komodo dragon
    Orinoco crocodile
    Indian gharial
    African rock python
    Tokay gecko
    Radiated tortoise
    Caiman lizard
    Reticulated python
    Rosy boa