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African .vs. Asian

Discussion in 'General Zoo Discussion' started by Writhedhornbill, 21 Apr 2007.

  1. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    I would have thought they would try to get Birma with Upali as soon as possible as she isn't gettting any younger(aged about twenty two).

    Upali grew up at Chester from a very young age so he's on good terms with all the others. When I saw Sundara- the daughter of Thi,she was much smaller than all the others. Do you think she is still growing, or has having a calf so young stunted her growth, do you think?
     
  2. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    Oops- I meant Sithami in that question- not Sundara.
     
  3. Writhedhornbill

    Writhedhornbill Well-Known Member

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    Yes. She is probably still growing. She's only 10 years old remember. That's still quite young in elephant terms. Even captive elephants can live a while. As I said Sheba is Still alive and not showing any signs of "popping her clogs" just yet.

    I have to say though that I feel sorry for Maya the female elephant. She never has anything to do with anyone. She is a fat elephant and has to eat at Every opputunity. As far as I know she has not had any babies. She may be still able to do so. I don't know. She's younger than Jangoli and she's still having babies regurlarly ( well as regurlarly as Elephnats get!!)
     
  4. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    I think Sithami will eventually grow to full size. I have a theory that it is normal for elephants to produce young while they are still growing, allowing them to give birth easily while their pelvic bones are still soft(its the same in humans...) whereas elephants which haven't bred at a young age and are fully adult have a much harder time- hence the quite high proportion of stillborn calves and failed births in some zoo groups. But I still was amazed to see Sithami with Sundara when she was still hardly more than a calf herself...

    Maya has never bred- she doesn't exhibit any reproductive cycle. She has lived in several zoos before coming to Chester (at Bristol she couldn't get along with their old female Wendy) so perhaps is not very sociable..
     
  5. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    Jangoli is an example of a much older elephant successfully breeding, though again her first birth was a stillborn calf. But since then she's done fine breeding wise- a happy outcome for an animal who used to be a traditional 'zoo elephant' (at Flamingo Park, Yorkshire) in the old style.
     
  6. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    Yes so am I...(and they won't necessarily be recorded anyway.) I do believe you're right that Paris had one and possibly the same one? was in Spain at some stage. I read an article about the latter. It described how apart from size, ears and tusk differences, 'Cyclotis' also leave a distinctive track with their footprints,- being narrow-bodied their prints are almost one in front of the other, unlike Savanah elephants.

    I also definately saw TV. footage a couple of years ago of one from a French circus(?), though no mention was made of it being such(not that sort of programme.) The thin straight, downward pointing tusks,- like daggers- are very distinctive but so is the rounded ear shape too.
     
  7. Writhedhornbill

    Writhedhornbill Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of TV footage, they had a lot of Forest elephant fotage on planet earth. It was brill!!
     
  8. patrick

    patrick Well-Known Member

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    i just got the entire box set (planet earth) for my birthday! i spent an entire weekend periodically faling asleep on the couch to the gentle whispers of david attenborough......... "an amur leopard" zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    i have another doco series called "congo" that had heaps of footage of forest elephants. interstingly as well as the differences between the savannah and forest elephants grant mentioned above, they also have the same number of toenails on the hind feet as asian elephants, four as opposed to five.
     
  9. Writhedhornbill

    Writhedhornbill Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it true that asian elephants are more related to mammoths?
     
  10. patrick

    patrick Well-Known Member

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    yes. the genus mammuthus has been proven with DNA tests to bear a close relationship to the genus elephus and thus the modern asian elephant. the two groups would have shared a much more recent common ancestor than that of the one shared with loxodonta species.

    somehow though hornbill, i think you already knew this........
     
  11. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    [ave another doco series called "congo" that had heaps of footage of forest elephants. interstingly as well as the differences between the savannah and forest elephants grant mentioned above, they also have the same number of toenails on the hind feet as asian elephants, four as opposed to five.[/QUOTE]

    'Congo' had the most revealing footage of Forest Elephants that I have seen to date. Perhaps they have narrow bodies(which would create those narrow footprints) to make passing between trees in the forest easier? Another thing that interests me about forest elephants -is there a 'grade' between Forest and Savanah elephants where the two interbreed freely- as I believe they do... and what happens to their toenails...

    (Patrick- your Tiger motif looks as if its just come upon some more crossed threads on this Forum....)
     
  12. Writhedhornbill

    Writhedhornbill Well-Known Member

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    Partick, I'd been told by someone, but I don't trust them. They're always calling me names so I thought I'd check with the clever people!!
    Grantsmb, was this Congo programme shown a while back. I think I remember it. Did it have a big quest to find the monster( don't know the name) Ma jucha mumbay? Something along those lines....
     
  13. patrick

    patrick Well-Known Member

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    mokele mbembe!!

    yes it did have an episode about the myth of mokele mbembe, the documentarians conclusion being that rather than it representing a contemporary dinosaur, it was the cultural memory of long extinct rhinoceros, that once grazed in parts of the congo when it was opened up for savannahs thousands of years ago...

    personally when it comes to mokele mbembe - i can't help but remember the movie "baby" where they discover a family of rubber brontosaurus' living in the jungle. my favorite!
     
  14. jay

    jay Well-Known Member

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    Ahhhh Baby. I remember that movie. You and I would have just neem kids Pat6, when that came out. I used to hope that there really were such dinos living in the congo.
     
  15. DanKoehl

    DanKoehl Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes there is, at least at Abidjan Zoo in Ivory Coast

    see >> Elephants at Abidjan Zoo in Ivory Coast
     
  16. patrick

    patrick Well-Known Member

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    ooooh, good one dan!

    how on earth did you track this one down and do you have any pictures or links for us?
     
  17. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member

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    I have seen old photos, and maybe if memory serves me well, old archive film too, ot an 'Elephant training camp' somewhere in the Congo. This is sometimes used as proof that African elephants can be domesticated as well as Asians, though its much rarer. The interesting thing is I believe all those trained elephants in the camp were Forest(L. Cyclotis ) elephants, not their big cousins. I think Hannibals' elephants which crossed the Alps were African too. They started from Spain but I wonder where they came from originally?
     
  18. Writhedhornbill

    Writhedhornbill Well-Known Member

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    Why use Africans? They are more Dangerous aren't they?
     
  19. Zoo_Boy

    Zoo_Boy Well-Known Member

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    yea but they were a lot further away than africans!