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Les Terres de Nataé Animal rights group buying Zoo de Pont-Scorff

Discussion in 'France' started by TNT, 23 Dec 2019.

  1. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I am aware of its recent history, I just envisioned that the current management should have been disqualified and been given custodial sentences for failure to manage a zoological collection, ensure good standards and procedures as well as animal welfare failures since taking over (the black rhino passing being a particularly poignant animal welfare negligence and dereliction of duty of care and animal welfare).
     
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  2. Onychorhynchus coronatus

    Onychorhynchus coronatus Well-Known Member

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    As I said before all of these issues were predictable and I do still believe that this case should be seen a cautionary tale by other (and perhaps all) zoos.
     
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  3. Pepe

    Pepe Active Member 5+ year member

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    This story is complicated, and it cannot really be avoided by zoos. As mentioned before, the zoo was already below standards when the former owner (a medical doctor, who owns two other zoos) bought it. No normal person would have bought it from him, knowing the amount of money that wass needed to bring it to modern standards, so he sold it to the "animal right group" that has no idea of the investment needed, even if it would only be used for rescuing animals. What must be done better?

    1) The authorities should have intervened earlier. For political reasons this is often not done in France but there is also the other problem: what to do with the animals if you close a zoo? This could be an important reason for the authorities to keep a low-standard zoo open, they may just hope that things will improve with the years. In my experiences in France, the authorities have too much other work (production animals) to take good care of zoos.
    2) The French Zoo Organisation (AFdPZ) should make minimum standards for their membership. The zoos are not critical enough about their colleagues, still not understanding that bad zoos are negative for all zoos. AFdPZ has among its members some very low-standard zoos, an attraction parc where tigers and lions perform in an arena with gladiators, and for a long time some animals trainers that use their animals on markets and for movies. The AFdPZ should have removed Pont Scorff many years ago from membership.
    AFdPZ should also work with the authorities on a "screening system", such as countries as the Netherlands and UK have.
    3) EAZA should have removed Pont Scorff much earlier from membership, but was possibly not aware of the problems (because the AFdPZ didn't report anything).

    Zoos and their associations (AFdPZ, EAZA) cannot close zoos. But they can show that they consider a zoo as below standards by not allowing them membership and by no longer sending such zoos their animals.
     
  4. Jurek7

    Jurek7 Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I agree that French zoos and EAZA will be finally forced to take care of the surviving animals anyway. Probably better as soon as possible, before more animals die. And that the Covid pandemics only made the problems worse. And it should be publicized as much as possible as a cautionary tale.
    However, the animal right groups is still responsible:
    - Why they bought the zoo without experience in caring of diverse wild animals? We do not live in a Simpsons cartoon.
    -Why they bought the zoo without funds for running it?
    -Why they mislead the donors they will 'release the animals' which was impossible practically and financially?
    - Why they did not immediately appeal for funds and help?
    That they possibly meant well does not remove their responsibility for harming animals and misleading the donors. If a person buys a dog or a horse which he does not know how to care well, he is still responsible. Now this is happening in the scale of a whole zoo.

    What EAZA should do about a failing zoo is a different matter. I see it that ultimately EAZA can do little but hope. In my understanding, EAZA has little funds and little formal legal authority over zoos. Animal welfare is a job of regional government authorities.
     
  5. TNT

    TNT Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    I couldn't agree more, it has some of the weakest zoo association standards in Europe.

    Currently, the "AFdPZ helps its members to apply the EU Zoo Directive 1999/22 implemented in French legislation through the national decree of the 25th march 2004". (A quote from the AFdPZ)

    The word "Helps" doesn't bring much confidence, standards should be a requirement... even then, the EU ZD are only minimum standards, with many other associations striving for much more.
     
  6. Onychorhynchus coronatus

    Onychorhynchus coronatus Well-Known Member

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    Interesting and thank you for your reply @Pepe, this is a really succint analysis of the situation.
     
  7. Blijdorpenaar

    Blijdorpenaar Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Doesnt the EAZA have the authority to pull some of the EEP animals out from that sh*tshow?
     
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  8. Pepe

    Pepe Active Member 5+ year member

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    EAZA is not owner of the animals, individual zoos are. And the zoos transferred most (EEP) animals as a donation to Pont Scorff, when it still was EAZA member. So nothing can be done. They (REWILD) just tried to send to tortoises to the Seychelles, but that was halted as these were on loan to them and the owner zoo claimed the animals.
     
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  9. Pepe

    Pepe Active Member 5+ year member

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    EAZA may have enough funds, but it is "just" an organisation of zoos, they have of course no enclosures and can give advice to the authorities about the situation, if requested.
     
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  10. Antoine

    Antoine Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Important news : the zoo has just been placed in legal recovery as there is no money to pay (the employees were not payed in january).
    It seems that Sea Shepherd wants the "zoo" back on their own (not shared with the Biome) and will present a project to the court in this way. Of course, there could be other projects from others companies...not really sure the court want to keep Sea Shepherd in the zoo !
     
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  11. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Do they still have all of their animals, or have they at least downsized a bit due to costs?
     
  12. Onychorhynchus coronatus

    Onychorhynchus coronatus Well-Known Member

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    So there is basically two or more factions of animal rights activist groups fighting over it now ?
     
  13. Antoine

    Antoine Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Frol what we know they still have the major part of the animals except them who died.

    No as the Biome is nothing real and doesn't have any money. So there is just Sea Shepherd to go on but I am quite sure the local authorities are not happy with that. Maybe some zoo companies will come to the table to see if a new project is possible ?
     
  14. Onychorhynchus coronatus

    Onychorhynchus coronatus Well-Known Member

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    Yes, certainly hope that some zoo comes to the table as it definitely doesn't seem a sustainable situation at the moment.
     
  15. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    That means ... those that have not learned from history are condemned to make the same mistakes. Sea Shepherd organisation is a equally badly equipped to manage a zoological collection as is Biome with both subscribing to unrealistic rewilding dreams.
     
  16. Antoine

    Antoine Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Well, in my opinion, this place just must be closed. There is a need of a lot of money to do something there and there is no guarantee about rentability for the future.
     
  17. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Agreed, and the animals redistributed over various zoological facilities and zoos accredited in zoo associations or regional EAZA network.
     
  18. Onychorhynchus coronatus

    Onychorhynchus coronatus Well-Known Member

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    I think the same, I just hope there is a workable solution to getting the animals rehoused in other zoos.
     
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  19. PossumRoach

    PossumRoach Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Would most of the animals even be able to recover the results of the mismanagement??
     
  20. Onychorhynchus coronatus

    Onychorhynchus coronatus Well-Known Member

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    Did you mean "recover from the results of misamangement" ?