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Discussion in 'General Zoo Discussion' started by animal_expert01, 20 Oct 2015.

  1. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    That is indeed the Wikipedia page and, yes, "endling" is quite the stupid word. Believe I came across the page originally a little while ago while reading the page for Rabb's Fringe-Limbed Treefrog.

    Still can't access that link for some reason but if it is indeed true it is very sad that such a decline as occurred. I've always liked Partula snails and it's a shame how badly many species are doing. Have only seen Partula nodosa myself.

    ~Thylo:cool:
     
  2. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    yes, this 2010 article BBC News - Bristol Zoo hopes to save last colony of tree snail says "Its climate-controlled room is the only place in the world where the snails, which number 88, can be found. The group has produced 15 young, with the smallest only 2mm long."

    In 2012 Five of the world's 10 most at-risk species at Bristol Zoo | Bristol Post says "...this tank of 38 snails represents the entire species. Every single Partula faba snail in existence is living in this tiny glass tank."

    It does seem a very rapid decline. I wonder if the 2012 article has mistakenly put 38 instead of 88, and the article I quoted earlier was actually mistaken (i.e. saying one snail when it should have said one colony - especially as the cause given is simply not breeding fast enough)? That might be a bit of a stretch but it has no reference for its claim. Maybe someone could find out directly from Bristol Zoo.
     
  3. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I may be mistaken but I seem to recall Bristol having multiple colonies of a few different Partula species, at least one other also being the only colony left. Can anyone confirm this? And if this is true, are the other species also kept in the same room as the P. faba? If the information is correct, it'd be a huge shame if the same fate came of the other species as well.

    While I understand that it probably wasn't avoidable in this case and often times isn't, examples like these are why I don't like the practice of keeping entire assurance colonies of highly endangered species all in one place.

    ~Thylo:cool:
     
  4. FunkyGibbon

    FunkyGibbon Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'm emphatically NOT questioning the judgement of Bristol Zoo, but I would be interested to know why one tank of 38 is better than two tanks of 19 each with one held by ZSL. Is there some sort of minimum viable colony size?
     
  5. Macaw16

    Macaw16 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Yes they keep a few species. The following are all that I noted down on my last visit, but I can't say these are all of the species they keep!

    P. hebe
    P. affinis
    P. dentifera
    P. tristis


    They are all kept in the same room in 'Bug World'*, except there was a colony of P. dentifera in the Reptile House.


    *Quite out of place in an exhibit which surely is dedicated to members of the order Hemiptera; would 'Arthropod World' be a better name? :p
     
  6. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Even three founders: 1.2 animals originally kept in Berlin.
     
  7. savethelephant

    savethelephant Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    But thylo, what about the Kihansi Spray Toad for Bronx you just told me about yesterday in the chatroom?:p:confused:
     
  8. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    The Bronx Zoo, Toledo Zoo, Chattanooga Zoo, Detroit Zoo, and Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo all keep Kihansi Spray Toad:p;)

    ~Thylo:cool:
     
  9. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    I don't see how. Snails aren't arthropods.
     
  10. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    do have any online references where I can read about that? The figure I always see is 18 animals collected from around Europe and only 11 were capable of breeding. The only reference I can find for the original founders of those 18 being solely the Berlin animals and no others (although it said one pair rather than a trio) is a comment on Zoochat.
     
  11. Macaw16

    Macaw16 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Whoops, sorry :eek:.

    In general I think 'Arthropod World' would still be better in general, but 'Invertebrate and Goby World' would cover it best. :p
     
  12. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Here is an article in the high quality Berlin Zoo journal "Bongo" from 1987 (german only):

    http://www.rhinoresourcecenter.com/pdf_files/125/1257684477.pdf

    On the last page of this extract it is mentioned that all written evidence indicate that the three Berliner deer were the ancestors of all living pere David deer. This with a reference to Bongo Band 11 (Jones als Author), though I cannot find this one online, though I am sure a zoochatter has this one in his collection.
     
  13. animal_expert01

    animal_expert01 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Yeah that is a bit dumb because if a disease gets into that one tank the whole species is gone. If they have two tanks with two different populations then we should still have a few snails instead of them all being gone.
     
  14. animal_expert01

    animal_expert01 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Are these the roads were they only lived in three waterfalls in Tanzania but then somebody built a dam so they nearly went extinct because they rely on the waterfalls spray?
     
  15. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    But as previously mentioned they might need to be kept in a large group situation to properly breed. As I was later informed by someone in the chatroom, the species in question used to be held at five separate collections before they were all pooled together at Bristol for breeding purposes.

    ~Thylo:cool:
     
  16. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    These would indeed be the toads. The Bronx Zoo/Wildlife Conservation Society is actively working on a reintroduction plan for the species last I heard.

    ~Thylo:cool:
     
  17. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    nice. Thanks for that :)
     
  18. Macaw16

    Macaw16 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    I just had a look at an Edinburgh Zoo inventory from November 2015; it lists six species of Partula Snail (I'll happily reproduce the list if people would like me too). Rather surprisingly it lists one Partula Faba. I presume this is the last individual from Bristol Zoo.
     
  19. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Feel free to post the list:)

    It's possible that the last Bristol animal was moved to Edinburgh but that'd be a bit of an odd move with only one animal left. Perhaps the attempt was to move the remaining few animals with the hope that they'd survive the pathogen elsewhere but all but one still died?

    ~Thylo:cool:
     
  20. Macaw16

    Macaw16 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    The list:

    P. affinis 0.0.238
    P. faba 0.0.1
    P. mooreana 0.0.381
    P. suturalis 0.0.353
    P. taeniata 0.0.211
    P. tohiveana 0.0.340


    They are all off-show, so I have no clue how many rooms they are in. That is correct as of November 2015, so the numbers are likely to have changed.