Thx for the information KevinB. Some tragic decissions (and not only these ones) had been made in Antwerp. Owl-faced monkeys should always have been part of the extensions around the Moorish Temple / Great Ape House, f.e. as part of the new okapi building. The langurs could be perfectly integrated in the Asian Greenhouse at PL, whether it be in the former hornbill enclosure or in the planned new aviary adjacent at the other site of the Greenhouse.
I understand they made spatial choices, I just cannot understand that - as you observed - the ebony leaf monkeys would have fit perfectly in the S.E. Asia and orang / gibbon exhibit.
They tried to mix the owl-faced guenons with the gorillas some years ago, before the new ape outdoor exhibits were built and that experiment sadly failed because Amahoro, the eastern gorilla, showed aggression towards the guenons and actually caught and killed one, according to what I read at the Laafse Kikkers forum. That post attributed this behavior to Amahoro having grown up with chimpanzees and having learned some behaviors from them that aren't typical for gorillas. Even with the larger outdoor exhibit now it just doesn't seem worth the risk of trying to mix small monkeys with the gorillas again. Especially not with a species as rare as the owl-faced guenons.
I know, but imo there was still space for a small outside aviary for this species around the Moorisch temple on one of both front sides. Sadly Antwerp nowadays pays far less attention to smaller species.
That, or house this species on the outdoor terraces and in some of the larger indoor exhibits instead of the mandrills. I mean, the mandrills are a nice species, but I personally find the owl-faced guenons more interesting.
I read that one of the outdoor terraces now house the spider monkeys, which is a good decision I think. Maybe after the renovation of the Jubileumcomplex the spider monkeys are moving to the spectacled bear exibit which makes space available for the guenons. But I've little hope the guenons will survive the long-term renovation of the Jubileum complex. Still can't think of any good reason why they added barbary macaques instead of colobus monkeys in Planckendael. It was a perfect solution to clear space in the Antwerp Monkeyhouse.
Gorillas will kill monkeys in mixed exhibits with no example needed! I particularly dislike the risk to rare species like Hamlyn's when these mixings are attempted, I believe this was the same species used with Gorillas in Valencia- I don't know if it is still continued there.
I've seen this example referenced a few times now, both here and on Laafsekikkers, but I've never actually seen any proof, or read any specifics (when?) of the species being kept together in the first place? Is this actually a thing that happened, and if so does anybody have any idea when it did? I'd assume an event like this would have been recorded properly somewhere...
@Pertinax: While I'm agree with what you wrote about the risk to rare species, I ask myself if "Gorillas WILL kill monkeys" is the right term. This has something certain in it and contradict to many zoos that still keep gorillas together with smaller monkeys like colobuses, guegnons, mangabeys, patas monkeys and antilopes (succesfully?). Is it probably more a question about the size/structure of the enclosure, an individual problem of some gorillas (ast mentioned) or do some species fit simply better because they are faster and/or more arboral as other and can escape from gorillas easier?
I do think space as well as providing good climbing frames and raised areas for the primate species you mention might ensure that any potential conflicts are minimised.
I also read somewhere that the spider monkeys now have access to one of the outdoor monkey grottos as well as two indoor rooms, while the mandrills have access to the other outdoor grotto and the two other indoor rooms on that side of the small monkey house. I did not however see any spider monkeys outside and both outdoor grottoes, if I remember well, were still signed for the mandrills. And while I agree that the spider monkeys getting outdoor access, I personally would like for the mandrills to be transferred out in favor of the Hamlyn's guenons. With regards to the Barbary macaques, personally I do not understand the negative opinions some people have towards that project at Planckendael. Barbary macaques aren't uncommon, agreed, but they are a threatened species and there is a good conservation story to tell by keeping them. I also really like the Moroccan pavilion built at Planckendael. Concerning the colobus, if they do ever choose to house those at Planckendael, there is still space left where they could construct a nice exhibit for them. Or they could even adapt the lemur exhibit to house colobus. Additionally I want to add that I saw no butterflies or chrysalis in the winter garden on in the hatching case in the winter garden, but there was some ripe fruit out so there must be some around. Maybe they cancelled or delayed some shipments during the closure? Is gorillas killing smaller monkeys at all common? I personally have never seen any negative interactions between gorillas and smaller monkeys. Presumably the structure and size of enclosures could make a difference - and the exhibit at Antwerp might not be ideal for a mix, regardless of Amahoro and her upbringing. And of course losing any individual of a rare species is much more of a blow to that species' future in zoological collections than it would be for common species. But fatal aggression is of course very much unwanted regardless of circumstances. There are pictures in the historical archive ('Beeldbank') showing mostly young chimps and gorillas house together - a practice that I believe was not uncommon with apes handraised by humans. One of the history books published by the zoo also says that the famous gorilla Gust was at some point housed with a female chimpanzee. I have however not yet seen any real proof of Amahoro being housed together with chimps. All I could find about Amahoro and chimpanzees is that she at some point showed a lot of interest in a male chimpanzee (Arnold) in another exhibit whom she had visual contact with. The exhibit at Antwerp doesn't have a massive amount of structure, or at least not as much as I've seen in some other gorilla exhibits. The exhibit is very much made for gorillas and might not suit smaller monkeys or a gorilla/small monkey mix that well if it were an option.
It is definately fact and I do know of examples. Many places do mix gorillas with monkeys perfectly successfully but I think an element of risk is always present.
Gorilla's certainly do not hunt other primates like chimps do. Although incidents are never excluded, certainly in a small and badly shaped exhibit like Antwerp's indoors one. And the behavior of Amahora certainly was an extra risk, but I don't know if anyone knew that on the time of the introduction of the guenons.
I was mainly wondering about the Hamlyn's monkeys being combined with gorillas, and Amahoro apparently killing one of them? The gorillas/chimps thing I have heard and seen information of before indeed.
I agree there is a real (and not perceived) risk in housing gorilla with guenons. The mix can probably only be made to work in large facilities outdoor with separate indoor for both species and with sufficient structures to allow the guenons to be arboreal like they more or less should and the gorillas on the forest floors. Food and space competition is a definite factor to be taken account too in the mixing of both. Suffice, element of danger if any of these two are not sufficiently met. However, I know of wild gorillas that are perfectly arboreal too. It is definitely not fool proof and if conditions as above are not met I do think that the husbandry and management are way off from the path of minimum animal welfare criteria. I personally have some serious reservations over whether in the current Zoo Anvers gorilla exhibit these can be met.
I don't otherwise criticise other Zoos on there, but I think it is disgraceful that such well-known and respected institutions (and ANY others) should even be considering this. Captive populations of Geunon spp are declining, drastically in some cases. Without imports from the wild it will be (and is already) increasingly difficult to maintain these animals in Zoos, and to relegate individuals to little more than cannon fodder is unethical and a disgrace.
I can only agree. I rarely do this myself, but when animal welfare is at stake I think we need to internalise and be introspective on why, how, where and wherefore, particularly when it is a known quantity. There is a fine and good deal of zoo literature and compendia on the subject what goes and what goes not. When it is in the latter category animal husbandry should not be overridden by PR / marketing or other officialdom. Animal welfare is down to the wire the first part of the husbandry manuals.
On a personal note, but I'm a little annoyed by the use of a French place name referring to a Flemish zoo. It's more polite to write Zoo Antwerpen or (given the fact that this is an english-using forum) Antwerp Zoo.
