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Article: Captivity damages flamingo feet

Discussion in 'Europe - General' started by Jana, 29 Aug 2013.

  1. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    This is an older article, but still interesting I think, so I ´m posting it here.

    Take a look on the original article too because it contains a pic of the prevaling foot damages.

    It is a little sad that zoo flamingos don´t have the same public lobby as let say elephants or apes.


     
  2. IanRRobinson

    IanRRobinson Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Jana. When you stop to think about it, a lot of this is pretty much common sense. But as you say, it's so sad that welfare concerns play (or seems to play) such a minor role in animal management for so many birds.
     
  3. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Indeed, it is sad. However, I know that flamingoes are increasingly getting the attention they should deserve (as do other bird families in EAZA zoos). Not to say there is a lot that can be improved upon greatly!

    I hope this work of endurance by Kobenhavn Zoo will stimulate discussions within the Flamingo Working Group in EAZA in order to incorporate research findings into husbandry guidelines and new designs for better flamingo exhibits.

    They should also look into non-pinioning of birds and using new state-of-the-art netting for netted exhibits of the family group. And most importantly keep them taxa by taxa!!!
     
  4. FBBird

    FBBird Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Is there any evidence that flamingos with water deep enough for swimming, have better feet?
    I would expect clean short turf to be very good for their feet.
     
  5. lamna

    lamna Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that, as far as I know flamingos dislike swimming.
     
  6. Chlidonias

    Chlidonias Moderator Staff Member 15+ year member

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    flamingoes dislike swimming? Since when?
     
  7. FBBird

    FBBird Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Article: Captivity Damages Flamingos' Feet

    Greaters and Chileans that I've worked with both have access to deep water, both swim frequently and with apparent pleasure. They also get on the water if frightened -- access to deep water may reduce their stress levels, as they use it as a refuge.
     
  8. Jurek7

    Jurek7 Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I think flamingo's legs normally rest when the birds are flying. Something they cannot do in zoos for extended periods. Indeed, deep water should be very helpful for flamingos. Also, maybe soft sponge-like substrate in indoor pens.
     
  9. lamna

    lamna Well-Known Member

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    I remember seeing a Wildlife on One/Two about flamingos. Maybe they meant they don't like feeding and swimming.

    I had a look at Dudley's flamingo's feet and they did look a bit strange.
     
  10. Arizona Docent

    Arizona Docent Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I agree 100 percent! I am not a fan of clipping or pinioning birds, although I think it is much worse for perching birds like macaws than for ground birds. I believe WAZA actually has a guideline that condemns the practice, but sadly EAZA and AZA do not.
     
  11. FBBird

    FBBird Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    A big argument in favour of pinioning flamingos, is that they can have larger enclosures and greater freedom. No aviary is big enough to allow meaningful flight for this type of bird, so they might as well be flight-restricted and have the extra space permitted by an open enclosure.
    Having said that, covered aviaries prevent predation on eggs & chicks, and stop wild birds stealing the food.
    One thing I'm sure we all agree on is the need to keep each flamingo taxon separated for breeding purposes.
     
  12. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    I´m unsure I´ve ever found anything about correlation between pinioned/full-winged birds and condition of their feet. It needs some research.

    Most aviaries are too small to allow meaningful flight for vultures, bigger birds of pray, large hornbills or parrots. Yet their chicks are not pinioned in zoos anymore.

    Small flamingo enclosures sometimes help to get the birds into breeding condition, especially with small groups. Poznan kept their Chileans for decades on a vast natural lake, only after they fenced a small part and covered it with net, their pinioned group immediatelly started to breed and they reared the first Polish flamingo chick ever. Berlin zoo kept their lesser flamingos in a large natural enclosure, without results, till they moved them to a small aviary last year and reared 4 chicks in 2 years.

    I don´t advocate to keep flamingos in too small spaces, just that bigger doesn´t always mean better.

    Adult Czech flamingos living in aviaries have by 1/3 lower mortality then adult birds in open enclosures. Eggs of full-winged birds show +80% fertilization.

    A single wild mallard can consume ca 200g of flamingo granulat daily, that makes 70kg annually. Calculate it by the flock size and all the years, this financial loss is probably bigger then some might expect. Not to forget the potential animal health risk of wild birds mixing with captive ones (avian flu anyone?). I can´t imagine zoo vets are ok with it.

    Flamingos are long-lived and pinioned birds will be with us for next 50 years or longer. But why to continue with new chicks? They can live in existing flocks in open enclosured wing-clipped. And maybe one day, in 20 or 30 years, with new generation of zoo managements, there will be funds and readiness to do these bird justice.

    The moral viewpoint on different animal keeping techniques is changing with time, but some old habits die hard. Irreversible deliberate mutilation of animals can´t be an acceptable zoo practice anymore, I think.

    Germany, Denmark, Switzeland etc banned pinioning and their zoos´ve learned to live with it.
     
  13. FBBird

    FBBird Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Article: Captivity damages.....

    Jana, we have had this conversation before, and will probably both hold to our opinions.
    However, I question your suggestion that wing-clipped Flamingos might live in open enclosures with pinioned flocks, for the many years that pinioned birds will be with us. The handling necessary to keep them clipped, puts the
    whole flock at risk of potentially life threatening injury.
    I do wonder if pinioned birds are slightly less resistant to cold. After all, they have lost some of their insulation on one side.
     
  14. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Yes, I have the feeling we won´t change our respective opinions on pinioning. :)

    Catching flamingos in hands can be potentially dangerous for them, but experienced staff surely helps here. Most zoos catch their flocks anyway at least once a year, for medical check-up, banding or separation of grown chicks, vaccination etc.

    Dozens of German or Czech zoos already keep both pinioned and wing-clipped flamingos mixed in open enclosures. Several zoos have whole wing-clipped flocks.

    Another possibility, but not really preferable, is to have just a few full-winged birds in bigger pinioned flocks, they would stay with the flock. Prague has ca 10 full-winged birds and I haven´t heard about any escape for last 15 years or longer. I´ve already seen them fly two times and it was really magical, but very short and they stay in the airspace of their enclosure.

    Missing insulation can make them less cold resistant, but I don´t know how to exactly measure it. Maybe to compare the % of shivering and calmly staying birds during cold weather in both groups? This coming winter, I could maybe take a closer look on "my" Prague birds with this in mind, take some notes and evaluate them.

    What I always wonder is if it is possible to present flying flamingo flocks in zoos, outside of trained birds during a show. My idea:
    A longer spacious aviary with a visitor´s path going in the middle that is lined by ca 1 meter high fence/bushes. On one side would be the wintering house, lawn, nesting site and a feeding place. On another part a vast pond with islands. At a given feeding time, the birds would be beckoned to fly from the pond over the visitors´ heads. Is this realistic?
     
  15. FBBird

    FBBird Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Some fascinating ideas here, especially with the large aviary. With training, it could work well.
    I would be very interested in your observations of cold sensitive ness in pinioned versus full-winged birds.
    The 'few flying birds in a mainly pinioned group' thing I believe is the case at Basel, and with the only breeding flock of Lessers in the UK.
     
  16. Jana

    Jana Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Basel has a flock where only a few veteran birds are pinioned, the majority is able to fly. The same system has Rheine. Both enclosures are open, but there is net and/or tall vegetation around the perimeter.
     
  17. FBBird

    FBBird Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Article: Captivity damages

    I didn't realise that about the Basel flock. Good for them