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Discussion in 'Australia' started by Chlidonias, 30 Nov 2012.

  1. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member

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    Re. the loaning of elephants. I assume this is just zoo jargon, not to be interpreted in the literal sense. I’ve heard the term permanent loan used in a zoo context, which is probably more appropriate.

    As for the ownership of offspring, I’ve seen sample contracts re. the loan of a zoo animal for breeding, which states ownership of offspring will be split 50:50 between the receiving facility and the lending facility. If it’s an animal that typically gives birth to a single offspring, the first would be owned by the lending facility; the second by the receiving facility etc. ‘Ownership’ is essentially a null and void concept as within a breeding programme, animals are never owned per say. The most bizarre aspect of this concept is a zoo can ‘own’ many individuals of a species, despite not holding the species for very long. For example, a Temminck’s golden cat stays at a zoo for a year before being transferred to another zoo; it gives birth to 10 kittens over the next decade, five of which are then owned by a zoo that only held the species for a year.
     
  2. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    @Zoofan15 I believe you are close to the money with your comments above!
     
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  3. toothlessjaws

    toothlessjaws Well-Known Member

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    This is regarding transactions between zoos. the Indonesian press article quoted hinted it was more akin to the loan arrangement China makes with pandas, whereby the pandas are literally "rented" from China for a set period and any offspring born to the group returned .

    Hence my speculating on splitting herds. Thinking about it further though, its entirely possible that they have the elephant for a set period of time and that the entire herd (be it with new members) be returned together and at a set time. But with elephant you'd expect Australia Zoo to want a very lengthy loan agreement.

    Lots to be curious about....
     
  4. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member

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    It could be a safeguard by Indonesia should the Sumatran elephant population suffer a catastrophic reduction in numbers, and they require this herd (with or without new members) to be returned to kick start a breeding programme. With a wild population of just under 3000 (as well as many more held in logging camps etc), I'd say that is unlikely however. The transport fees (which I assume would be paid by the receiving facility) would be too high to warrant their return unless under exceptional circumstances. It'd be like South Africa going to great lengths to seek the return of a Southern white rhinoceros (albeit not quite the same, as Sumatran elephants are critically endangered). :p
     
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  5. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    I thought the current estimate be 2,500!
     
  6. Jake

    Jake Well-Known Member

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    I think @Jambo is meaning is if they get a male if they will breed.
     
  7. Yassa

    Yassa Well-Known Member

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    Actually ownership is very important even in times of coordinated breeding programs. Its always the owner who makes the final decisions about an animal, not the breeding program.
     
  8. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member

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    It’s my understanding the holder (irregardless of whether they are the owner) makes the final decisions, as they’re the facility that know the individual best. As mentioned, a zoo can own the offspring of an animal they sent to a facility; despite not holding the species for decades.
     
  9. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Australia zoo has now announced the arrival of the four elephants on the front page of it Website!
     
    Last edited: 7 Dec 2019
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  10. MRJ

    MRJ Well-Known Member

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    Within Australian zoos conditional transfers are now extremely rare. Most transfers are regarded as permanent and without condition. Of course some species are subject to managed programs. The Palm cockatoo transfer from Taronga to Adelaide some years ago was conditional but was so unusual that it was a surprise to everyone when a long standing member of staff brought it up after the birds finally bred. We have one koala on loan from a non-ZAA facility. We also were asked by Melbourne Zoo to hold a wombat for 12 months due to building works, and were told it might become permanent depending on their requirements. After 12 months we were asked if we would extend the loan, we said no and they made it permanent.

    There is also an assumption that all native animals are owned by the Crown and only held under licence. Certainly parks that have been closed on welfare grounds have had their animals confiscated without compensation.
     
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  11. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Australia zoo has stated on their website that their new elephants will be in the Elephantasia area at Easter 2020 perhaps to let them settle in before going on public display?
     
  12. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Modifications are being made at the zoos exhibit area "Elephantasia". I was wondering if it would be a little better covering the concreted areas with a little sand?. The walk daily from the holding area to the exhibit area would be a nice little walk for them twice a day!
     
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  13. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    Concrete and elephant and/or other pachyderm reps do not mix well in husbandry and welfare terms. Natural floorings and mud baths do!
     
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  14. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Most the the exhibit is dirt but there is a large concrete area next to the pool and public area still perhaps sand would be somewhat better!
     
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  15. WhistlingKite24

    WhistlingKite24 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Some bits and pieces to end 2019.
    Australia Zoo welcomed a Short-beaked Echidna puggle (who was named Yoda) earlier in the year. Throughout 2019, three local zoos that I know of (Darling Downs Zoo, Currumbin and now Australia Zoo) announced that they successfully bred echidnas this year. Excellent news!
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    The zoo also welcomed the birth of a female Common Wombat (who was called Elle) during the year.
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    For those interested, I also recently received a response from Australia Zoo with further information about their four Sumatran elephants, Christina, Megawati, Widya and Raflesia.
    Their eldest female and matriarch of the group is Megawati (who they shorten to Wati). She is currently 20 years old. She apparently has a very strong bond with their youngest elephant, Raflesia, who is only five years old. They referred to Megawati as Raflesia’s auntie (maternal type of relationship).
    The other two females, Widya and Christina share a strong bond together. Widya is 18 years old and Christina is nine years old. They also mentioned that Christina is sometimes quite a nervous animal.
     
    Last edited: 24 Dec 2019
  16. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member

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    That’s awesome, I didn’t realise they were all so young. The two older females are just slightly older than Porntip, Pak Boon and Dokoon were when they were imported.

    They will have to get moving with breeding Megawati though if they want her to have a calf by 24 (assuming she hasn’t previously bred).
     
    Last edited: 24 Dec 2019
  17. Kifaru Bwana

    Kifaru Bwana Well-Known Member

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    While speculative I am more or less inclined to think both older females might both have bred and calved prior to arriving in Australia!
     
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  18. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member

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    Had the quarantine and travel process not been so lengthy, I’d have said it’s a shame they didn’t allow the older cows to fall pregnant prior to export; but on hindsight, this would probably have been quite a strain on them. Here’s hoping the import of a bull isn’t far away, though it doesn’t appear he’ll be housed at Sydney Zoo now. It’s a shame the two zoos couldn’t have collaborated on this breeding programme.
     
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  19. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    It is very likely Australia zoo knows the history of each animal!
     
  20. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    I could not see a reason why AZ could not house a bull on site!
     
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