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Best UK Gorilla enclosure

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by britishzoofan, 16 Apr 2020.

?

Best UK Gorilla enclosure

Poll closed 20 Apr 2020.
  1. Howletts

    14.3%
  2. Blackpool

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Bristol

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Chessington

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. London

    7.1%
  6. Port Lympe

    21.4%
  7. Paignton

    25.0%
  8. Jersey

    28.6%
  9. Belfast

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Other

    3.6%
  1. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I should mention that by no means am I claiming to be an expert, like some people in other parts of this forum claim to be!!! But having visited almost every zoo in the UK with gorillas (save for Belfast, Blackpool and Chessington) regularly, it’s not hard to see that Howletts has the best/most functional enclosures of the three with gorillariums (Chessington’s looks like Howletts but lacks some of the things that make Howletts great. If Port Lympne only had the Palace of the Apes group, and not any of the bachelors in the Gorilla Garden, then they’d be the obvious win. But the gorillariums used by the bachelors are much smaller than even the ones at Howletts).

    Another note that could be affecting the vote - some zoos built said enclosures with the immediate mindset of keeping bachelor gorillas (Longleat, Paignton, Port Lympne’s gorilla garden), whose husbandry requirements are massively different to a regular group. Certainly with bachelors you need plenty of places for the males to get away from each other, and the option to separate. That, again, is a factor that must be taken into account when voting on the best enclosure for gorillas in the UK.
     
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  2. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    It is indeed far too small for nowadays. When it was built it was a lot larger than the previous house( now the chough aviary) where they first started breeding from Jambo/Npongo/Nandi. The indoor dens in that one were just three tiny cubicles. As you suggested, this seems to be why their group is still so small nowadays- from the gorillas they were breeding back in the 1970'-8o's era (though most of them were males) one might expect them to have a much larger group nowadays than they do have. The indoor house size seems the limiting factor still.
     
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  3. britishzoofan

    britishzoofan Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Thank you @ShonenJake13 for your great reply giving an insight into the qualities of the different Gorilla enclosures in the UK. Just to address a couple of your points.

    Yes, obviously some people who will be voting will have not visited any/many of the collections. Therefore, it is extremely helpful when more knowledgeable members such as yourself contribute to give these members more information to base their vote on. I would obviously still encourage these people to vote because the more members who vote the better.

    I understand there are two different types of exhibit that are more difficult to compare. However, that is the whole point of this poll to discover which members think are more suitable for Gorillas and therefore lead to the best overall enclosure.
     
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  4. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    And that’s where it gets tricky. Despite my personal opinion that Howletts has the best husbandry style for any gorillas in the UK, the fact is that not everyone would think said enclosures are suitable. Which is fine, as all opinions are subjective.
    But if the vote is for which enclosure is most suitable and not which enclosure is best as far as husbandry standards is concerned, then I’d probably go with Jersey as my top choice. Certainly for the group it houses (a silverback, an elderly female, two breeding females and a young female infant) it’s suitable. Paignton built their enclosure originally without considering that they may at some point have to permanently split up the boys. And Howletts, whilst having the largest number of gorillas outside of Africa and an amazing breeding history, also frequently runs into trouble with splitting up their groups. They have had to leave blackbacks in their groups well into their early teens (around the time they should be leaving the group) frequently, because the owner of Howletts breeds the gorillas without necessarily wanting to work alongside the gorilla studbook to move on older offspring (anti-zoo mentality and all that jazz).
     
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  5. britishzoofan

    britishzoofan Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Yes, I see what you mean with there being a difference between the best and most suitable enclosure for Gorilla's. I would suggest in general to take into account how suitable the enclosure is amongst other factors such as husbandry style which you mention to decide what you believe to be the best enclosure for Gorilla's in the UK. It is by far no means a perfect question and people will interpret it differently, but that will hopefully lead to a more interesting debate.
     
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  6. lintworm

    lintworm Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Another thing that plays a role, especially in the German speaking zoo world, is that gorillas tend to be afraid of nearly everything they do not know. As many zoos with excellent breeding records (Basel, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Krefeld) used to keep their gorillas either all indoors or without any natural substrate, animals accustomed to that are often afraid of things like grass or mulch (some of Stuttgart's gorillas preferred to use pieces of wood as shoes on that substrate) and will refuse to use it. There are some "fun" stories of Krefeld gorillas that moved to to other zoos being afraid of rain... This is also one of the reason why they suspect the Frankfurt gorillas don't use the excellent outdoor enclosure, which is full of cover, as their silverback is from Basel and isn't used to outdoor enclosures.
     
  7. Andrew Swales

    Andrew Swales Well-Known Member

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    Yes - this just goes to show, that 'best' certainly in threads like this, certainly can depend on whether you an animal looking out or a human looking in... very often, quite different objectives.
     
  8. Pertinax

    Pertinax Well-Known Member 15+ year member

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    Where did you get the baby's sex from? They keep saying they are going to release the news soon but I still can't see it anywhere.
     
  9. ShonenJake13

    ShonenJake13 Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Their recent lockdown video about the gorillas - the keeper kept referring to the baby as she/her.
     
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  10. britishzoofan

    britishzoofan Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    The results are in. It was extremely close but well done to Jersey on winning the poll for Best UK Gorilla enclosure. With a winning margin of 1 over Paignton, 2 over Port Lympne and 4 over Howletts it was extremely close and all four exhibits should be acknowledged for being excellent Gorilla exhibits in different ways. Interestingly the more natural exhibits appeared to be more popular amongst members than the more functional ones. This was by far the closest of the Great Ape polls, due to the fact there is perhaps, no stand out exhibit in this category that can fully accommodate the visitors and apes needs and stand out from the competition.

    Jersey: 28.6%
    Paignton: 25.0%
    Port Lympne: 21.4%
    Howletts: 14.3%
    London: 7.1%
    Longleat: 3.6%

    @Jedd Cullinan I am assuming your vote was for Longleat?
     
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  11. Benosaurus

    Benosaurus Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Now imagine if Port Lympe made their grass paddock look as good as Jersey's or London's. What an exhibit that would be.
     
  12. Crowthorne

    Crowthorne Moderator Staff Member 10+ year member

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    I don't seem to have a photo of London's indoor area from my last trip in March, but I'm sure I remember that some of the leaf-decals stuck on the windows have been removed. Not completely, but I'm sure there were more clear areas of glass than there was previously
     
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  13. Jedd Cullinan

    Jedd Cullinan Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    That's right
     
  14. amur leopard

    amur leopard Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Yes, I have checked my pics and there are fewer on there than shown in the photo upthread. :)
     
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