This is just a bit of fun to judge the general consensus on the best enclosure for Lion's in the UK safari parks. I have added a few photos from the gallery to make it easier for members to compare the different exhibits. If anyone wants to make an argument for a particular enclosure, please feel free to do so. Also, I would encourage people to perhaps list the enclosures in order of what they determine to be the best. Unfortunately I couldn't find photos good overview photos of Longleat or WMSP so if anyone has visited could they describe the exhibit, compare it to others and possibly provide photos. I know the safari polls probably aren't as popular as the zoo ones, partly because they have been visited less and partly because the exhibits are more similar. However, this is probably the last species I will do a separate safari thread for and I think there is enough difference between enclosures to make it interesting. West Midlands Knowsley Longleat Woburn Blair Drummond
The Longleat photo isn’t the best photo to show people who have never been what the enclosure is like! The lions at Longleat have three large paddocks (because there’s so many of them.....) - two of which are forested. The photo above shows a tiny fraction of the grassy paddock.
Yeah, I realised that which is why I asked is anyone had good photos to give an overview of the exhibit (same for WMSP) as there were none in the gallery. Thanks for sharing a bit of info about the enclosure.
All are very good in their own ways. From the pictures I've seen of the new African lion house at WMSP it is of a very large size with two outdoor holding areas as seen in park videos and Google earth and their new reserve is actually quite nice with lots of scrub style bush just like they are used to in the wild made me cast my vote with them, I grew up visiting Woburn and it was a very very close call between the two but to be a bit different I choose WMSP!
In my opinion woburns could be seen as a bit of a waste of space? The enclosure is bigger than most city zoos such a london and bristol. This space could be used for more reserves for cheetahs or hunting dogs etc. Although its lovely for them to have the space ive only ever seen them down the bottom.
All these enclosures are very good for different reasons.... I don't consider it a waste at all? I'm just trying to think of things practically for the lions too. Woburn's is the biggest but do they let them use it all? It could be impractical for them with it being so large. All of these (I don't know about Longleat anymore) only have their lions out in these areas during the day so housing and night paddock space is very important. I'm just trying to think out the box! In the same way that I would consider voting for Linton in terms of best landscaping. To me WMSP ticks a lot of boxes quite surprisingly, I never thought my vote would ever go for them! Maybe take out the big lion head rock though.... but their lion house is certainly a vast improvement in the Safari world. Knowsley has a good outdoor night enclosure as Woburn do now. But the rocks and the scrub style vegetation does present a very natural background for the lions that not many safari parks have achieved most are either fields or ancient woodland.
The issue with Woburn is, vehicle-wise, there are very few passing places for cars. I remember being stuck in the lion enclosure for nearly 2 hours on a very hot day once because everybody wanted to get “The Shot!”
It's OK, I understand, but by not voting for Woburn you've handed it to Longleat, I'm trying to post a link to a bbc news article about the highly questionable reasons Longleat euthanased a lioness and her 4 cubs at the end of the 2014, season, but having trouble at the moment! It was claimed the lion cubs were in bred as an excuse for killing them! Their mother was not even born at Longleat!! If people believe Longleat's excuses that's fine, but I have serious doubts!
I thought we were meant to be voting based on the enclosure, not the husbandry practices? That’s the argument that was made in the gorilla and clouded leopard threads...
But not in a few of the others, hippos and cheetah weren't just based on enclosures or at least some of the arguments weren't and I'm sure there were others too
Well if husbandry practices ARE also being taken into account, then I’ll vote Woburn. I’ve always found Longleat’s practices with lions to be questionable, but their enclosures are massively spacious (given the number of lions they have). I’d like further clarification on if we’re just meant to be taking the enclosure at face value or not, as that is a deciding factor on how I vote from here on out.
The vote is meant to be based on the quality of the enclosure itself. Some members have taken a good breeding record to indicate a good enclosure (I have no problem with this as it can in many cases). However, in this particular case with the euthanasia of the lions I don't think it is relevant to the quality of the enclosure (unless someone can argue otherwise) and shouldn't be relevant. I hope that's clear.
I would argue that if an enclosure can win on a good breeding record then another can be discounted on ethical grounds surely? Neither are directly related to the enclosure!
In some cases a breeding record IS related to the enclosure - Howletts have such a great record with breeding because their enclosures are tall, spacious, and allow for different mixes of leopards. But yes, I’d say that a zoo breeding their animals unnecessarily often and therefore overcrowding even the most spacious of enclosures should not be ignored.
Well I would say that in some cases a good enclosure set up does lead to a good breeding record (for example Black Rhinos at Chester). Of course, it is easy to argue the opposite point of view as I have myself, that a good breeding record does not necessarily indicate a good enclosure. However, I can't see how this euthanasia case could at all be an indication of enclosure quality. At the end of the day it is down to the individual on how they would judge an enclosure to be the best as @Tau said. I am just offering guidelines.
But my point is that if good breeding record is a plus in these contests then as @ShonenJake13 suggests earlier, excessive breeding could count against the enclosure (a post you liked!)
Well, yes a good breeding record could be a plus a negative or as I would suspect in a lot of cases have no effect. It all depends upon how members perceive the relationship between breeding record and enclosure. I would reiterate that I personally wouldn't place too much waiting on this particular aspect and think there are far more important criteria.
