I should mention that I am now sticking with Woburn, but not because of Longleat’s practices with their lions (at least, not directly). Woburn’s enclosure is around 35 acres for a pride of eight lions, Longleat’s three (or four) enclosures for lions are around 20 acres total for 26 lions. Woburn absolutely wins based on that alone.
Having been to Woburn so many times it seems they have such a large waste of space for the lions. Only once have I seen them anywhere other then the bottom bit and the keepers were quick to move them back. They could easily halve the space and still it would be huge.
WMSP has two lion enclosures. One for 'regular' African lions and one for their large pride of money-making inbred white lions. Neither enclosure appears better or larger than any of the other safari park lion enclosures in the UK. With regards to disgusting practices, in the past, due to massive overbreeding, some of the park's surplus white lion cubs, particularly the ones with health/appearance issues due to inbreeding, were given to the sick businesspeople at Heythrop 'zoo'. At Heythrop they were trained to perform tricks before being sold to perform at a Japanese circus. But it's a safari park so no one bats an eyelid.
Score update. It's extremely close at the top with their being just 1 vote between the leaders Woburn and Longleat. It would be great if someone could provide a photo of Longleat's exhibit as it could be key in deciding the outcome of the vote. In general, it would appear the standards of the enclosures are high and drive through Lion enclosures are an area in which the safari parks excel.
My thoughts on West Midlands were based on the 'tawny' enclosure and not the white lion area which is nowhere near the same quality. Very large house (must be one of the largest in a UK safari park) overnight yards and a reserve of 5 acres which is the same size as Knowsley and Blair Drummond and well landscaped with plenty of shrubs for them to rest in and rocks for vantage points.
I am not questioning that the animals are well cared for, nor the quality of the enclosures. However, the undeniable fact of the matter is that they as a company are an animal training centre who have sold animals to circuses, which I personally consider severely morally objectionable in this day and age.
Whats longleats lion set up at the moment then do they have 3 separate drive thrus or are there two drive thrus and a drive past enclosure?
There’s actually close to three or four prides. The setup consists of two drive through enclosures and three separation enclosures - two are visible (one in each drive through section) and one is by the exit to the safari drive through. If I remember correctly they alternate which groups are allowed out into the drive through areas.
During the first live Q&A on Facebook a few weeks ago first question was "how many lions are there?" Caleb was on hand to answer that they have 26 in total. *Harry's pride with 8 females *Klaus and Simba with 11 females *4 males kept seperate
Yeah, that’s my source for the figures above. Just wasn’t sure if the four separate males are all together or not, hence me saying three or four prides It should be nine males and 17 females though....so it could be that there’s some castrated males in one of the prides (I think this is the case in the larger of the two...)
Yes I believe the 4 males could well be siblings of Simba and Klaus although I'm not 100%. Both prides (males and females) are descendents from former pride males Kabir & Niblao including Harry.
The other six males are Sylvester, Jumba, George, Toby, Dandy and Ghost. Toby is Klaus’ son, all of the others were sired by the same father as Klaus and Simba (I think Nibalo?). Believe Dandy and Ghost are the youngest males and from the same litter so will likely be together in whichever pride they were born into I would guess....? Which would mean Sylvester, Jumba, George and Toby are the separated males.
Results are in. Congratulations to Woburn on winning the vote for Best UK Safari Park Lion enclosure narrowly over Longleat. This completes a hat-rick of victories for Woburn in the safari specific polls with previous wins in the Elephant and White Rhino category. This perhaps allowing it to partly stake its claim to having the best quality drive through safari section in the UK. Longleat also performed well with its excellent wooded habitat, however the sheer size of the Woburn exhibit compared to its number of lions gave it the win. Woburn: 46.9% Longleat: 37.5% Knowsley: 9.4% WMSP: 3.1% Blair Drummond: 3.1%
Not to be a stirrer here and i appreciate it’s an old post but it’s good to have a wider perspective. You hold longleat accountable for their actions which they ought to be but you do it because it was posted all over the media, just as west midlands white lion scandal was. Woburn have their own issues , in fact the first two litters produced by shane and sly 17 years ago were both rejected and handed off to other zoo to raise. Linton zoo took two of those lions and produced the inbred lineage that resulted in louisa. They also allowed a 15 year old lioness to breed this year which problematic for obvious reasons. Whipsnade and flamingo land have prides consisting entirely of inbred individuals. Knowsley let Kenya breed with his daughter, lost two different males to intrapride conflict and then transferred Scooter to a park with very questionable care standards. They are all as guilty as each other, no point berating others for supporting one collection you disagree with.
What makes you think I slated Longleat just because of information I got from the media? Did you get all your information from the media? Some of it may be accurate, but possibly not all
As an aside, this does raise some interesting questions: is there such a thing as “pure bred” African lions in any collection, or are they all just “Zoo lions?” And, secondly, where would you even begin to start a breeding programme-I’m assuming there’s a stud book?
May I respectively ask the difference between a trained, well socialised and enriched horse, and a lion in the same situation?
