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Felids in Australasian Zoos – News, History and Discussion

Discussion in 'Australia' started by Zoofan15, 30 Nov 2017.

  1. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    They are related to the new males from Melbourne, but they’re post reproductive (born 2004) so the more likely reason is they were too difficult to introduce to the new males. Introductions in lions are a lot easier when the female/females are in season.

    This is how Monarto’s pride are related:

    Kura (1998) > Kuchami (2001) > Johari (2003) > Melbourne Males (2015)

    Kura (1998) > Amira (2001) > Zalika (2004)

    Kura (1998) > Amali (2001) > Kiamba (2004) > Makena (2013)

    Kura (1998) > Tiombe (2004) > Husani and Nia (2013)
     
    Last edited: 13 Jul 2019
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  2. Nisha

    Nisha Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    They are most likely joining Lazarus and (presumably) Maya to form a larger none breeding pride. So Dubbo will have two separate groups (breeding and none breeders)
     
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  3. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Introducing mature lionesses would be near impossible, so I doubt they’ll be introduced to Maya.

    Monarto initially intended to introduce all six lionesses to the new males, so obviously a clash has necessitated the move. If not, then why not just leave them as non breeding members of Monarto’s pride? Given Lazerus’ age, it seems strange to introduce him to new lions so late in life.
     
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  4. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Paradise Valley Springs Lion Pride - Max (2000-2019)

    Paradise Valley Springs have announced that their eldest lion, Max, died 31/07/2019 at the age of 19 years.

    Max was born 01/02/2000 at Paradise Valley Springs to Honey (1988-2010). Max took over the role as head of the pride after his father, Jake, died in 2003. The premature death of his half brother, Zack; and the export of his son, Ben (both very dominant lions); meant Max’s leadership went largely unchallenged.

    All but one of the lions at Paradise Valley are directly descended from him. His littermate Millie also lives at the National Zoo and Aquarium Canberra with her two sons.

    The Pride of Paradise | Paradise Valley Springs Wildlife Park

    Paradise Valley Springs says goodbye to their own 'Lion King'

    Unfortunately we have had to say goodbye to our Lion King, Max. He was the eldest male lion we were privileged to have at Paradise reaching the impressive age of 19 years old. He was a fair and respected leader for all of his adult life and he has left a huge hole in the pride.

    Max had a very close bond with lioness Ryo who passed away in 2017 aged 22 years. He is buried next to Ryo and overlooking his pride.
     
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  5. Tafin

    Tafin Well-Known Member

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    So the only two male lions are related to the females? Does this mean they will be importing some unrelated males to replace them and Max?

    Which lioness was not related to Max?
     
  6. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Yes the males are related to the females as follows:

    Luca (mother/grandmother)
    Hana (daughter of Luca)
    Ayla (daughter of Luca)
    Aleeka (daughter of Luca)
    Benji (son of Hana)
    Bella (daughter of Hana)
    Xander (son of Hana)

    I was mistaken when I said one of the lionesses wasn’t directly related to Max. I was referring to Hana (not sired by Max); but since Max was the sire of Luca, he was her grandfather.

    Given that a lot of inbreeding has occurred already, I think if they want to continue breeding with these females, they’d be wise to import an unrelated male/males. A male lion from Zion Wildlife Gardens would probably be the easiest to obtain given that Paradise Valley Springs are not part of the regional African lion breeding programme.

    A new male could be introduced to the females without incident, but the males (Benji and Xander) would be more of a challenge. I’d recommend exporting them or building a separate exhibit for the new male and introducing him briefly to the lioness they were wanting him to breed with.
     
    Last edited: 17 Aug 2019
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  7. Tafin

    Tafin Well-Known Member

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  8. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Wellington Zoo probably won’t be looking to import new lions while their elderly lionesses are alive as they wouldn’t be able to integrate them. Wellington Zoo technically have Zulu and Malik on loan to Auckland Zoo; but given their age (15 years), I’m doubtful they’ll return.

    Orana Wildlife will need to import a male lion for breeding if they want to continue their pride (their youngest lionesses are 10 years old) so maybe they will loan a pair of young males (like the two at Werribee), who will then move to Wellington Zoo once Djane and Zhara have passed on.

    As for tigers, we haven’t been told anything more than that Auckland Zoo will be receiving a young pair from overseas.
     
    Last edited: 19 Aug 2019
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  9. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Discussion on Sumatran Tigers in New Zealand

    Auckland Zoo are currently without Sumatran tigers. They’ve stated they will be receiving a young pair, which will likely come from overseas as the only young tiger in New Zealand is Kirana (born 2014) at Hamilton Zoo. If they can import two unrelated tigers from outside the region to introduce a fresh bloodline, then that would be ideal; but assuming they will import from Australia, this is what I’d like to happen:

    Instead of importing a young female, I’d import Jaya (2008) from Dreamworld. As Jaya’s parents are not direct descendants of Nico/Meta, they’re regarded as a fresh bloodline in the region. They have five daughters together in the region (including Jaya) but not one of them has bred. At 11 years of age, time is running out to breed Jaya so I’d import her this year with the intention of breeding her by next year (2020).

    Her mate? Reggie (2016) at Australia Zoo. The 1.2 siblings from Indonesia are the most genetically valuable tigers in the region; yet all but one of the cubs born from this line have been sired by males from the Nico/Meta line (Ramalon, Juma and Ranu). The one exception is Reggie (sired by Satu). Their cub/cubs could be sent to Orana Wildlife Park, who would hold them until they were dispersed to other zoos for breeding.

    Wellington Zoo clearly like to take things slow with introducing their tigers. After two years, they don’t appear to have achieved anything so I’d given them until 2022 to GTST and breed from Bashi (2007) and Senja (2010).

    Then in 2022, I’d do a tiger swap between Auckland and Hamilton Zoo. Sali (2008) and Kirana (2014) would be sent to Auckland Zoo; and Jaya would be sent to Hamilton Zoo. If still reproductive, Sali would be the intended mate of Reggie; if not, her daughter Kirana. Jaya would be introduced to Oz to form a non breeding pair.

    The following year in 2023, I’d form a second non breeding pair at Hamilton Zoo with Bashi and Senja from Wellington. Their cubs would take their place, again remaining at the zoo until required overseas from breeding.

    Cubs born 2020 (Reggie x Jaya) wouldn’t need to breed until 2032 (females) and 2035 (males); while cubs born 2022 (Bashi and Senja) wouldn’t need to breed until 2034 (females) and 2037 (males).

    This means the import of Jaya and Reggie this year could sustain a genetically viable population of Sumatran tigers in New Zealand until at least 2032-2037.
     
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  10. Tafin

    Tafin Well-Known Member

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    I love this plan but (and please don't think I'm questioning your judgement), wouldn't it be difficult to breed Jaya for the first time at 12? Wouldn't it be easier to breed Sali for example, who has already had cubs?

    Are Wellington taking longer than most zoos to introduce their tigers?
     
  11. Nisha

    Nisha Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Wellington were initially told not to breed Senja and Bashi due to space restrictions within the region. Its only in the last year that they have been given a breeding recommendation and have started the process of integrating them

    Introductions are currently ongoing at Adelaide between Rani and Kembali. Rani is another of the 5 daughters from Raja and Soraya (both European imports to Dreamworld). She's also a full sister to Jaya. So attempts are being made to breed from that bloodline.

    As for Auckland's new pair - I agree that they should be importing Reggie. For genetic diversity I would be looking to pair him with a young female imported from either Europe or the United States

    From Europe I would suggest:

    Kiara or Seri from Tierpark Berlin - born 4/8/2018 to Mayang and Harfan. Both parents were imported from Taman Safari Indonesia and are unrelated to any other individuals in Europe, the US and Australasia. A pairing with Reggie would create a completly unrelated pair with cubs that would prove extremely valuable to breeding programmes on all 3 continents. The litter was 2.2. Plus at the moment their are too many females in the EEP and not enough males. So allowing one of the female Tierpark cubs to go to Auckland would not harm the EEP long term.

    Surya or Mau at Jihlava - born 28/3/2018. Born to Cinta and Dandys. Cinta (the mother) was born at Jihlava in 2013 and has no relation to any individuals in Australasia at present. Dandy (the father, who came to Jihlava on loan from Brno) is the nephew of Raja (Raja's twin sister, Ratu is Dandy's mother). So there would be some relation on the side. But no relation to Reggie at all

    Dora/Gemma at Drayton Manor. Dora was born at Prague Zoo in June 2011 to Falco and Surami. She's currently living at Drayton Manor in the UK. Falco (her father) has no relation to any individuals in Australia or New Zealand currently. Her mother, Surami was born at Heidelberg in 2005 and again has no (or very distant) relation to any of the current AZA population. Dora's sister (Gasha) has had several litters within the EEP but Dora has been in a none breeding situation since 2013 (the male she's living with has been with 3 females and failed to breed with any of them, so I would suspect he's sterile). For this reason I would select her as another potential candidate for export to Auckland
     
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  12. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    At 12 years of age, Jaya would be coming towards the end of her reproductive years. Auckland Zoo were planning to import a mate to breed with their tigress, Nisha, who would have been 12 by the time they were introduced. Poetry at Melbourne Zoo had her first litter at the age of 12; and Meta at Taronga Zoo was 13 upon the birth of her final litter (though she had bred many times before). My idea to breed Jaya is more based on her genetic value than her reproductive condition (i.e. I agree they’d have more luck with breeding Sali).

    Wellington Zoo started the introduction process in November 2017, which began with them being able to see each other through the mesh. As far as I’m aware, they haven’t progressed beyond that (despite the tigers showing positive interactions from early on). Auckland, Hamilton and Taronga Zoo have all completed successful introductions in much less time; and there was no shortage of people on ZooChat earlier this year who felt London Zoo was right to introduce two tigers that had only been at the same zoo for a week.

    What I don’t understand is why Wellington didn’t do all the protected contact/introductions through the mesh stuff in the years Bashi and Senja were together at the zoo prior to them receiving a breeding recommendation. They even could have had them into them together with Senja on contraception, so they were ready to go when the breeding recommendation was given.
     
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  13. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Raja and Soraya’s daughter, Indah (born 2007), was also paired with Satu (Ramalon x Binjai) at Taronga Western Plains Zoo. Do you know if they intend to breed them @Nisha? Or have they never received recommendation?

    Thanks for giving your insight into viable mates from Europe. My knowledge on tigers outside of Australasia is limited to a few family lines. I had no idea there was an unrelated pair from Indonesia living at Tierpark Berlin! I’m now really hoping one of their daughters is Auckland Zoo’s new female as it would create an extremely valuable bloodline for Australasia if she is paired with Reggie.
     
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  14. Nisha

    Nisha Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    I don't know what the current situation is at Dubbo. But I'd be surprised if they were intending to breed with Satu. Given that they exported his sister to the EEP and his father is from the over-represented Nico/Meta line. Stranger things have happened though..

    I was trying to select female's in the EEP that have as little relation to the existing Australasia population as possible. Not easy given that Soraya was born to one of Europe's most prolific breeding pairs (Morris and Santana). They had at least 7 offspring (possibly more, I'd have to check the studbook) and most of those 7 have gone onto breed themselves. That's a lot of descendents as you can imagine.

    The other bloodline you don't really want is via Tenang. Tenang was born at Perth to Malu (from Wellington) and Calang (Nico X Meta again) and sent over to Paignton in the UK for breeding. He had four surviving offspring. All of which have now bred themselves (producing 18 cubs between them!). So it's not easy finding individuals who are not direct descendents of either of these two main bloodlines.

    Seri or Kiara would obviously be a perfect choice for Reggie but only time will tell if both studbook coordinator's agree
     
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  15. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    I had initially assumed the purpose of sending Indah to Taronga Western Plains Zoo to be paired with Satu was for them to breed; however, I'm now starting to think they've abandoned this plan. As you say, Satu is from a well represented line and his younger (full) brother has since been paired with Indah's younger (full) sister at the National Zoo Canberra, which is essentially the same match. It seems strange to me that Ramalon and Binjai were bred a second time when their first litter had limited breeding prospects within the region.

    I had no idea Tenang had so many descendants. I have loosely followed his progress over the years and knew Kirana has had three litters at Chester; but had no idea his other three offspring had all bred. Have any of Kirana's offspring bred?

    Melati at London Zoo was also a niece of Tenang; so combined, that bloodline must be well represented in Europe. As far as I'm aware Malu at Mogo Zoo is still alive and is now the eldest tiger in Australasia. She has outlived all three cubs from her first litter; as well as a few of her grandchildren.
     
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  16. Tafin

    Tafin Well-Known Member

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    Is Australia or NZ likely to send any of our tigers to Europe soon? Or the USA? Most of our exchanges seem to be with Europe.
     
  17. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    The last Sumatran tigers Australasia exported to the USA were in 1987. There were no exports outside the region during the 1990s, and only three since 2000 (all to Europe) - Tenang (2000); Isha (2006); and Melati (2008).

    I doubt there will be any exports from New Zealand. Auckland Zoo have no tigers; Wellington Zoo have a breeding pair; and Orana Wildlife Park has an aging male.

    Since Isha (2006) has failed to breed at her zoo in France; it's a possibility one of her two younger sisters - Indra (2010) and Rani (2010) may be sent in her place as neither are currently required (or likely to be required) for breeding in the region. There are four other surplus adult females in the region - Cinta (2008), Jaya (2008), Shanti (2008) and Kirana (2014); though three of these tigers are nearing the end of their reproductive years; and Kirana is a close relative of Tenang and Melati. There are also several surplus males.
     
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  18. Nisha

    Nisha Well-Known Member 10+ year member

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    Isha (sent to Le Parc De Felins) has been paired with a different male for breeding this year. So hope's are high that she might still breed despite her age.. (fingers crossed)
     
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  19. Tafin

    Tafin Well-Known Member

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    Are the three tigers from Indonesia still the most valuable for genes? Who is the next most valuable after them?

    Are there any suitable mates for Kirana in Australasia?
     
  20. Zoofan15

    Zoofan15 Well-Known Member 5+ year member

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    Yes, the 1.2 tigers from Indonesia (Bashi, Makeki and Kaitlyn) are still the most genetically valuable Sumatran tigers in the region. As the offspring of wild born parents (that are not in the region), they are regarded as founders.

    Not being the studbook coordinator, I can only guess at the next most valuable tigers; but I'd say probably Reggie (founder x European import); followed by the European imports (Raja, Oz and Satu) and the daughters of Satu and Soroya; followed by the other offspring of Kaitlyn (founder x main bloodline). The rest of the reproductive age tigers are all from the main bloodline of Nico x Meta.

    The four most suitable mates (genetically) for Kirana (2014) are: Satu (2003) at Ballarat; Raja (2003) at Dreamworld; Dumai (2003) at Perth; and Bashi (2007) at Wellington. Satu and Bashi are currently paired with females; and Dumai is hand raised and failed to breed with a mate during the 2000s so can be discounted. This leaves Raja at Dreamworld; unless they decide to pair Kirana with Bashi down the line (i.e. if plans to breed him with Senja are unsuccessful).
     
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