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Bronx Zoo Bronx Zoo News 2018

Discussion in 'United States' started by AnaheimZoo, 16 Jan 2018.

  1. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

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    Precedent would help "rights" groups not only in their efforts to force zoos to relinquish their elephants, but eventually all animals. They have merely begun with the largest and most human animals. Canada has passed a law deeming orcas "non-human persons," and as such, may not be exhibited in human care. Marineland's remaining orca is grandfathered in, but when she dies, there will be no more on exhibit anywhere in Canada. "Rights" groups are also pushing for other species who have recognition of self (elephants, apes, magpies, orcas) to be released from human care. I'm afraid this is just the beginning.

    I wonder why the zoo doesn't argue that all of its animals are property, owned by the WCS. Property may not be taken away legally unless, in the case of animals, there is persistent cruelty or neglect. The Zoo has been certified by the AZA, a rating by the governing association of animal experts, which of itself rules out neglect or cruelty. In addition, there are still quite a number of other facilities which exhibit lone elephants who do not get along with any others, like Patty will be, setting a precedent. Why do we never hear the sensible arguments, only the nonsense from the extremists?

    Btw, does anyone know the status of Patty's TB? The Zoo related the initial positive trunk wash and the onset of meds, but I never understood why they claimed she didn't need to be quarantined. I can't help but wonder if being around TB could have taxed Maxine's immunity, bringing about her recent problems. There was never any word about health issues until she died, and I confess that I was quite stunned at the announcement.
     
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  2. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

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    The "rights" groups advocate sending all elephants to sanctuaries such as the Elephant Sanctuary in Hohenwald, TN or PAWS (Performing Arts Welfare Society) in CA. There are a few others, but these extreme groups decry breeding, so they claim that sanctuaries that have had live births are as bad as zoos. The founders of ES and PAWS are very vocal in their support of these groups, and a lot of PR, like In Defense of Animals' annual "Ten Worst Zoos for Elephants" publication, has made things more difficult. It would actually be easier if there were no other options once "sprung from the clink," but the mere presence of places oh-so-pleasantly called "sanctuaries" featuring thousands of acres actually makes it easier to rule that they would be in good hands and should be sent away....

    The number of zoos who have succumbed to this pressure has reached almost 20, but thankfully, most of the rest have invested in new, greatly-expanded facilities that are beyond reproach. Zoos with much smaller footprints have made it possible for their elephant exhibits to continue. It's gotten so that IDA has much less to complain about, and now to even come up with 10 "worst" each year, they have to claim that zoos are bad just because they breed. The Bronx campus is so large that it would be shame if space couldn't be allotted for a new elephant program. The thought of a major city like NYC not to be able to show children what a real live elephant looks like is, to me, a point beyond which these "rights" groups will be dictating whether we even have zoos exhibiting animals.
     
  3. Jurek7

    Jurek7 Well-Known Member

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    I thought it over. The plan of creeping personhood to animals will fail. The novelty will wear off and people realize that actual situation of animals remained the same (Sandra the orangutan) to ended tragically (the killer whale Keiko/Willy). Neither Happy will be better, because her own agressive character makes her fight other elephants.

    Besides, the logical error inherent to the concept of 'non-human humans' will produce problems as soon as it is applied more widely. For example, when an elephant injures itself in the sanctuary. Any organization can appoint itself a legal representative of the elephant and sue the sanctuary in turn. I can think of dozens of such nonsense, comic or sad outcomes.

    More important is the Bronx Zoo runs lots of good conservation projects of wild elephants. Eles at Bronx are the only live representatives to reach 10 m or so people in the New York area. The groups should realize they make saving elephants more difficult. They should turn to more meaningful helping wild elephants. Unless they are human parasites, trying to make money off pestering a honest business.
     
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  4. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again, animal rights groups don't really care about animals. Period.

    (at their core in any case, I'm sure most of their supporters are simply misinformed people who genuinely think they're helping)

    ~Thylo
     
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  5. NVP

    NVP Well-Known Member

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    Did you mean to right nonhuman persons? Because nonhuman human makes even less sense.
     
  6. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

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    There's already a deeply-embedded culture of people working together on the "rights" side, each of whom have vest interests to protect. The Elephant Sanctuary loudly supports such groups in saying how much better elephants would live in their 3,000 acres. But they have a horse in this race too now; after buying this huge, huge acreage, their eight 44-71-year-old elephants are already elderly and won't be around forever. With very few new additions in the last five years, they stand to be in the embarrassing position of one day having 3,000 acres with no one to use them. They're ever-so-firmly "recruiting," but I've been pleased to see AZA affiliates send their elephants when necessary to other AZA affiliates.
     
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  7. NVP

    NVP Well-Known Member

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    The Elephant Sanctuary is an AZA certified facility, so it technically counts.
    I wouldn't have too much of an issue with elephants who are to old to breed and/or have bred to the point where their genes are represented enough in the captive population being sent to these facilities, but it should be the zoos' decision, not animal rights activists', whether or not they should go there.
     
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  8. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

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    You're right on all counts. Keepers at multiple institutions have told me that there is real cooperation between the ES and other institutions and that ES has standardized it's protocols so much that other zoos now hire past employees. It's the sense of superiority that permeates the rights/sanctuary crowd that irks me. Ringling's Myesore is 72, and the National Zoo's Ambika is soon to be 71, so it's possible for elephants to do well in human care without huge acreage. To be fair, ES's Shirley is also soon 71, but she spent most of her years without 3,000 acres, so she essentially makes the same point.
     
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  9. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

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    I've always heard that Maxine and Patty were the aggressors to Happy and Sammie and Sammie's predecessor. Happy had lived successfully with multiple elephants for over 30 years when her last companion died around 2005. I once asked a former keeper if they had tried alternating the pairings every day, ie Patty and Happy one day, Maxine and Happy one day, thinking that perhaps it was the two-against-one that turned violent. I was told that Happy would be toast in any of the scenarios they tried. The recently retired head keeper said on The Zoo that he'd miss Happy most because she has the biggest heart. I don't think Happy's the problem.
     
  10. Jurek7

    Jurek7 Well-Known Member

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    Off-topic question. Are these ages documented, for example by a series of historic photographs?

    Elderly elephants suffer feeding complications from wear of their last set of teeth, already from their 40s. A 70-year old elephant is more likely a stage name, where in fact more different individuals substituted each other.
     
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  11. Jurek7

    Jurek7 Well-Known Member

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    It is apparently more often than not, that an elderly elephant cannot form new social friendships.
     
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  12. Birdlover

    Birdlover Well-Known Member

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    I know this concerns the Bronx Zoo and all but do you think Happy and all the related posts should be their own thread?
     
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  13. Giant Panda

    Giant Panda Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any basis for saying that?
     
  14. AmbikaFan

    AmbikaFan Well-Known Member

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    I can only speak to Ambika. She was given to the children of the US by the children of India in 1962. She had been a logging elephant for 14 years. She came as a political gift of goodwill, so I would imagine there was some documentation given. Also, it wouldn't be too hard for keen-eyed animal enthusiasts like us to determine an elephant's age when not full-grown. NZP is not a circus so there was no need for bally or an exaggerated story with Ambika. BTW, years and locations of all tranfers are listed in the AZA studbook.

    As of this summer, Ambika still had her last set of teeth, but keepers feed some meals away from speedeater Shanthi because Ambika eats slowly and would otherwise have her food stolen.
     
  15. TinoPup

    TinoPup Well-Known Member

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    I've probably asked this before, but does anyone have anything close to a species list? Ideally broken down by building/area, but I'll take anything!!
     
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  16. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member

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    Technically I do..... just not formalized.

    ~Thylo
     
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  17. Grant

    Grant Well-Known Member

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    I started making one based off of taxa not exhibit I can work on that for you tho
     
  18. ThylacineAlive

    ThylacineAlive Well-Known Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: 8 Jan 2019